Can North Korea become a viable power?

sndef888

Senior Member
Registered Member
Currently the economic gap between the South and North has grown so much that most hypothetical reunifications imply the South would absorb the North and "reeducate" the North's citizens to accept the South's culture

I see no hope for the South to become a Chinese ally or even a neutral party. Their media and western brainwashing has made them irrationally hate China so much that they even openly cheer the deaths of Chinese. Their extreme consumerism and western/christian infiltration has made them diverge way too far away from asian culture.

In fact, the young hate China even more than the old.

Can this situation be reversed? Could China build up the North to a point where they become at least an equal party or the stronger party?
 
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Bob Smith

Junior Member
Registered Member
I doubt Kim Jong Un wants his people to prosper because they would likely want political reform if they do. He lives a fantastic life where he gets to completely rule over the rest of a country for the rest of his life while having unlimited access to Western goods via China. Why would he want to ruin that?
 

KYli

Brigadier
Kim Jong Un does want his country to be prospered because poverty and famine have become a serious problem for him and his party. However, what Kim wants even more is control. Kim has crackdown a few times on trades due to the fact that he was losing control.

There is a lot of mistrust between China and NK. It would be difficult for China to invest in NK as NK doesn't seem to want any Chinese or Chinese companies to have any control over any of the industries within NK. Kim prefers Chinese businessmen to invest but have no say in the business. The few businessmen who dare to invest in NK have ended up badly. So no, I don't think it is possible to help NK.
 

Maula Jatt

Junior Member
Registered Member
You know why SK young UN's hate China

Soft power, build China's soft power, it's extremely important (BRI imo is soft power too)

Build Chinese language schools,. improve film industry, music, concerts in foreign countries, (US Aid programs were shown to increase the acceptence of US in local populace), Korean international students


There's nothing truly evil in China's foreign policy against SK, if it was NK millitary wouldn't
be where it's at

Reason they might hate China is due to western propoganda, how cool west is compared to China, US stands in between North Korea and SK protecting em

Build a softer image of China around the world and especially in countries important to China
 

Maula Jatt

Junior Member
Registered Member
^ From OP

"I see no hope for the South to become a Chinese ally or even a neutral party. Their media and western brainwashing has made them irrationally hate China so much that they even openly cheer the deaths of Chinese. Their extreme consumerism and western/christian infiltration has made them diverge way too far away from asian culture."
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I doubt Kim Jong Un wants his people to prosper because they would likely want political reform if they do. He lives a fantastic life where he gets to completely rule over the rest of a country for the rest of his life while having unlimited access to Western goods via China. Why would he want to ruin that?

So people literally starving to death are less likely to revolt compared to people living a comfortable and improving life? Yeah sure.

There is zero link between increasing prosperity and revolutionary tendencies, the exact opposite is true actually.

There is a direct causal link between increasing western MSM and CIA access and violent coups and pro-western uprisings, but that has nothing to do with prosperity, especially now that the west doesn’t hold exclusive access to wealth and technology that previously allowed them to demand increasing access to said western MSM and CIA dressed up as NGOs as conditions for market and technology access which were needed to raise living standards. I think that’s what you were getting confused about.
——————-

Back on topic.

As for North Korea, well it is what it is because it already serves its intended purpose of being a mad dog guarding China’s northern boarder.

The value in having a mad dog compared to a whipped dog can be every clearly seen between how America and China treat each other when their respective dogs step out of line.

When NK goes off on one, China just shrugs and says, Kim’s gunna Kim, and no American President can seriously dispute that. When American dogs like Taiwan or Japan gets too uppity, China starts flexing and America immediately yanks on their chains and brings them to heel. Who has the more useful dog?

There is little benefit in China building up the NK economy because paradoxically, China doesn’t want NK to be too powerful, least they get stupid ideas about conquering the south again.

NK serves its purpose pretty well as it is, and there is zero need or benefit for China to spend money, resources and political capital to improve their economy or even military. Because it has never been the might of the NK military or even its nukes that keeps the Americans away, but rather China standing behind them.

China has tried to encourage Kim to reform his economy, but are not bothered enough to force him if he doesn’t want to. But nor is China prepared to write blank cheques to bankroll Kim’s failed economy. China will provide substance level support to make sure the NK people don’t literally starve, so as to not risk an uprising in NK, but it’s not wasting more money and resources than it absolutely must in that regards. As such Kim and NK needs to work if they want more, which is what NK has been doing with everything from arms and drugs and even hacking and economic reforms.
 

Bob Smith

Junior Member
Registered Member
So people literally starving to death are less likely to revolt compared to people living a comfortable and improving life? Yeah sure.

There is zero link between increasing prosperity and revolutionary tendencies, the exact opposite is true actually.

There is a direct causal link between increasing western MSM and CIA access and violent coups and pro-western uprisings, but that has nothing to do with prosperity, especially now that the west doesn’t hold exclusive access to wealth and technology that previously allowed them to demand increasing access to said western MSM and CIA dressed up as NGOs as conditions for market and technology access which were needed to raise living standards. I think that’s what you were getting confused about.
The original post asked if China can build up the North to be at least parity or stronger than the South. That means a fully developed economy well above $30,000 per capita GDP given their much smaller population compared to the South. You think Kim Jong Un would still be allowed to rule with an iron fist if people in North Korea were a fully developed economy when he's scared to even allow his citizens to leave the country right now?
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
The original post asked if China can build up the North to be at least parity or stronger than the South. That means a fully developed economy well above $30,000 per capita GDP given their much smaller population compared to the South. You think Kim Jong Un would still be allowed to rule with an iron fist if people in North Korea were a fully developed economy when he's scared to even allow his citizens to leave the country right now?

In theory it would be possible, but would require a marshall plan and 50 years in order to completely change the current attitudes in NK. Nobody knows what the international order would be like in 50 years anyways.
 

FireyCross

New Member
Registered Member
As for North Korea, well it is what it is because it already serves its intended purpose of being a mad dog guarding China’s northern boarder.

The value in having a mad dog compared to a whipped dog can be every clearly seen between how America and China treat each other when their respective dogs step out of line.

When NK goes off on one, China just shrugs and says, Kim’s gunna Kim, and no American President can seriously dispute that. When American dogs like Taiwan or Japan gets too uppity, China starts flexing and America immediately yanks on their chains and brings them to heel. Who has the more useful dog?

There is little benefit in China building up the NK economy because paradoxically, China doesn’t want NK to be too powerful, least they get stupid ideas about conquering the south again.

NK serves its purpose pretty well as it is, and there is zero need or benefit for China to spend money, resources and political capital to improve their economy or even military. Because it has never been the might of the NK military or even its nukes that keeps the Americans away, but rather China standing behind them.

China has tried to encourage Kim to reform his economy, but are not bothered enough to force him if he doesn’t want to. But nor is China prepared to write blank cheques to bankroll Kim’s failed economy. China will provide substance level support to make sure the NK people don’t literally starve, so as to not risk an uprising in NK, but it’s not wasting more money and resources than it absolutely must in that regards. As such Kim and NK needs to work if they want more, which is what NK has been doing with everything from arms and drugs and even hacking and economic reforms.

This. If NK stays exactly as it is, that's absolutely ideal from the Chinese perspective, and probably the Kims too - they also benefit from the current situation. As it stands, when things go bad, them Kims can blame the Americans for persecuting small, helpless NK. If NK was any more powerful, it'd all be on them.

Chances of NK being able to develop by itself are pretty low. There's precious few resources to kick start any meaningful development, and the Kims insane governing style ensures they are surrounded by yes men promoted solely due to perceived loyalty rather than any degree of skill or competence, which again works well for them. Promoting idiots who rely solely on you for their position is a good way of preventing a coup.
 
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