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xyqq

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think the simplest explanation is, he only used the regular non-Chinese classification.
I agree with you if it is just a commercial TV program, but this one is different: "National Defense Military Morning Post" on the National Defense Military Channel of China Central Television (CCTV-7). Its statement about J-20 as a 5th-generation fighter jet can be regarded official.
 
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Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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no, it has, there was no fifth-gen system prior to Russian claimed their Su-57 as a fifth-gen fighter. which is only about 10 years ago, F-22 was a fouth gen fighter by then as to American and the rest of the world.

American changed the F-22 to a fifth-gen fighter roughly about the same time when F-35 was introduced to service (~2015)

come on, how can you not remembering this, there were so so so many discussion about this back then
Can you give me a source about what you're talking about??

Because in the late 2000s if not earlier, the F-22 was most definitely referred to as a 5th generation fighter.
E.g.:
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from 2006
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from 2006
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from 2008

There are many articles that refer to F-22 as a 5th generation fighter in the 2000s, and there was even a propaganda piece documentary about future air combat that aired in the US in 2008 about this which openly referred to aircraft like F-22 and F-35 as 5th generation.

So I really have no idea what you are talking about.
 

by78

Brigadier
I agree with you if it is just a commercial TV program, but this one is different: "National Defense Military Morning Post" on the National Defense Military Channel of China Central Television (CCTV-7). Its statement about J-20 as a 5th-generation fighter jet can be regarded official.

picard-meme-facepalm.jpg
 

FishWings

New Member
Registered Member
This implies that J-8II may be regarded as a generation on its own (similar to Mig-23):
1st generation: J-5
2nd generation: J-6, J-7, J-8I
3rd generation: J-8II
4th generation: J-10, J-11
5th generation: J-20

Versus the original classification:
1st generation: J-5
2nd generation: J-6, J-7, J-8I, J-8II
3rd generation: J-10, J-11
4th generation: J-20
It's probably not what they have in mind at all, and I doubt that the generation categories have changed for China. This reporter called it a 5th generation fighter, but there is not much to infer from it. He could have also been saying it was a 5th generation by Chinese definition, which would be 6th generation by other definitions

But I think you definitely have a point about the J-8I being in the 2nd generation with the J-7, while J-8II is in the third generation. For example, the ultimate J-8II is the J-8F, which is capable of lobbing PL-12s in BVR. That makes it absolutely distinguished from other 2nd generation fighters
 

Tsin Phan

New Member
Registered Member
I know Rafale is a 4th Generation jet fighter and European countries did not like Rafale and made their better plane " Eurofighter" and noe are making more 5th/6th Generation fighters.
But why India is shouting loudly that their french Rafale plane will kill J-10, J-20 and JF-17 ??
How will you evaluate in missiles package and dog fight over sky ?
 

crash8pilot

Junior Member
Registered Member
I know Rafale is a 4th Generation jet fighter and European countries did not like Rafale and made their better plane " Eurofighter" and noe are making more 5th/6th Generation fighters.
But why India is shouting loudly that their french Rafale plane will kill J-10, J-20 and JF-17 ??
How will you evaluate in missiles package and dog fight over sky ?
Clubs to spears, swords to axes, Rafales to Flankers... The point being they're all pretty even tools for fighting a war, its more so about the person (or pilot in this case) wielding the tools and how they leverage it to come out on top. Both our air forces are modernized, so its really about how we use/deploy our weapons.

It all boils down to asset integration (AEW/AWACS + ground radar + data link to build situational awareness, integrated air defense system), indoctrination (good formation flying as well as communication of bogies and targets), and good execution of counterair tactics. I might be biased, but I'd certainly think the PLA are coming out on top on all those fronts since we've built and integrated everything in-house - everything is made in China, so they 'speak the same language'... unlike the Indians who have to integrate French Rafales, Russian Flankers, Brazilian AWACS, and American transport aircraft into their combat air fleet. Our recent operation tempo also suggests our readiness levels are higher than the Indians, especially since they're only just taking delivery of their Rafales and integrating them to their fleet while we've been fielding our Flankers, J-10s and J-20s for a couple years already.

The day of the dogfight is practically over. Unless a pilot loses situational awareness or the skies over the Sino-Indian border are packed with aircraft Battle of Britain style, the chances of a visual merge between Indian and Chinese fighters is almost unlikely. The modern day midair skirmish will be beyond visual range. While the Chinese PL-15 BVR missile might not be as proven as the European METEOR or American AMRAAM, but considering how far along China has come with AESA radar technology I wouldn't say their capabilities might not be far behind from American or European BVR missiles.

Like I said it matters more about the tools and tactics used to fire off Fox-3 BVR missiles - that comes down to experience readiness. That's why the Americans invest so much into military exercises like Red Flag to give their warfighters real life valuable experience integrating all assets across the Air Force.
 

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