All newType-59 thread


King_Comm

Junior Member
VIP Professional
It was in the news that 1st Armour division, mainly equipped with Type 59 tanks, have under gone digitalisation. And was apparently able to take on Type 99's.

The tanks were fitted with modern fire control and C4ISTAR.

解放军数字化部队目前尚处于起步阶段


   解放军数字化部队目前尚处于起步阶段,编制、装备都处于实验之中,着重减少指挥层次、中间环节,实现传感器与最小作战单元的平滑连接。十六大以后,解放军加快数字化部队的建设。军队“数字化”的发展应采取渐进方式,由下而上逐步扩大。装甲机械化部队先行,以坦克、装甲车、直升机为载体,从单车的“数字化”开始,由“数字化”合成营试点成功后,逐步向“数字化”团、师、集团军发展。

  装甲兵信息化部队通常指以数字化电子信息装备和机械化主战武器为主导装备,以数字化信息为媒介,对兵力兵器实施指挥控制的部队。实现通信技术数字化,指挥控制、情报侦察、预警探测、通信、电子对抗一体化和武器装备智能化,作战系统网络化等方式连接为一个整体,从而达到指挥实时化、侦察打击一体化,适应未来信息化战争要求的新型作战部队。在作战指挥和行动上带来了战场感知方式、信息传输方式、指挥控制方式、目标打击方式和协同保障方式的“五大变革”,突出体现了小单元参与大协同、小部队控制大战场、小战斗达成大目标的特点。

   “信息系统的运用,使作战装甲部队沿指定战线的行军时间缩短一半,抵达指定地区的准确率提高了80%以上;装甲兵分队组织战斗可一步完成,协同时间从以往的1至2小时缩短到5分钟左右;先进的数字化坦克火控系统和车载定位系统使坦克炮的首发命中率提高了90%……”营指挥车内,可以得到装甲侦察车与侦察直升机实时战场信息,自动生成最新敌我态势图。营指挥车与师前指可以“视讯会议”。 “功臣号”在行进中攻击2千米外的目标,从发现目标到摧毁目标用了30秒钟。30S包括侦察发现敌坦克,然后营指分配目标到“功臣号”车,单车行进间发现、锁定目标而后攻击到摧毁的全过程。整个作战指挥无口令和人工操作,全部由先进的信息化火控系统来完成。坦克使用了新型火控系统诸元传递等改装,完成了我军第一辆数字化坦克。部队运用信息网络、虚拟现实、人工智能等高技术,对侦察、火控和射击系统进行了全新组合,可以进行动态远距离射击和超视距打击。

 
脱胎换骨的59与99装甲集群对抗中不分高下

第1装甲师通过对武器装备改造升级,牵引人才队伍的快速成长,在人与武器装备协调发展中全面提升战斗力。
  隆冬时节,第1装甲师进行了一场检验性实兵实弹演练,一辆辆刚刚经过改造的坦克似脱胎换骨,在与新型坦克组成的装甲集群对抗中不分高下。
  “功臣号”坦克第三十四任车长杨继伟:别看是辆服役多年的老坦克,现在“耳不聋、眼不花”,照样能打硬仗,让它返老还童的灵丹妙药就是换脑。
  所谓换脑,就是将激光瞄准机、传感器等高新设备装进老坦克,把过去靠人脑思考的问题交给电脑,只需按下电钮,就能准确测距,自动修正射击,精度和速度比以往机械手工操作提高20倍。
  第1装甲师师长邓汉桥:给老旧装备换脑,人也要换换脑筋,由于我们短时期内不可能整体换装,因此,不等不靠,尽快让老装备适应新战场,打赢未来信息化战争,我们才能有所作为。
  在20多家科研院所近百名专家的指导帮助下,他们成功对老坦克“嵌入”卫星通信定位、数字指挥控制、武器火控平台、情报信息处理等信息技术,使现有装备具备了信息化条件下作战功能。
  第1装甲师装备部部长张中东:现在我们的指挥方式更加灵便,战场态势一目了然,装备火力效能更强,就好比战车从乡间小道一下子闯进了高速路。
  装备改造升级后,作战方式和训练手段变化之快令许多人始料不及。
  第1装甲师连长 张豪:坦克还是那辆坦克,就是感觉特别陌生。进去以后这也不敢摸,那也不敢碰,紧张得浑身都是汗。
  第1装甲师政治部主任李西楼:官兵对升级装备心里没底,是他们还没有获取相应的知识和技能,这给我们一个警醒,装备信息化改造每推进一尺,官兵学习信息化知识的热情就得激发一丈。


总结:从现实走向未来,以未来标准要求现在



总体来说作为解放军装甲兵数字化部队建设的开路先锋,不但没有38军迎外部队装甲6师数字化坦克分队风光,甚至连96坦克都没有捞到。在“DA师”概念天花乱坠的今天,解放军的务实传统在装甲兵身上得到体现。“DA师”开创了一个极其恶劣的先例,似乎没有新装备,仗就没法打了。但是对解放军装甲兵而言,发展一种新装备,老技术、成熟技术和新技术各占三分之一比例,并且滚动发展。对于装甲兵部队建设而言,这种思想也得到淋漓尽致的体现。有了99坦克,大量装备部队的却是96;在大量装备96的同时,老59却被脱胎换骨式的改装。战争是不以人的意志为转移的,解放军装甲兵的基础装备是59,将99、96等新装备拼光了,最后刺刀见红的还是老59,既然59还是主力装备,弃之不用才是典型的“败家子”作风。解放军装甲兵数字化建设立足于整个装甲兵发展建设的角度,而不是“DA师”败家子式的作秀。信息化牵引机械化的跨越式发展,是以机械化为基础的,在解放军机械化建设尚有很大欠缺的时候强调以新装备一步到位的完成信息化建设,才是外强中干的绣花枕头。使用现有装备改造完成数字化建设其实是一种哲学思想的体现:从现实走向未来,以未来标准要求现在。

  通信指挥学院为数字化部队试验方案提供了专题报告,并且提供了建设总体方案、数字化部队建设的关键理论、部队建设论证报告等,研制配套了论证模拟系统。第一套装甲兵数字化部队作战仿真系统在2002年的装甲兵工程学院落成,坦克营规模的战术仿真系统。解放军数字化试验部队是在97年开始的,装甲兵、炮兵等7个试点单位在当年十月进行了首次演示,到了99年,解放军才实质启动数字化部队建设,2000年“世纪大演习”中,各数字化部队才首次亮相。应该说在数字化部队建设中,装甲兵先行一步了。97年以后,总装装甲兵装备技术研究所完成了准数字化坦克、准数字化装甲指挥车改装的任务。需要注意的是,99坦克并不是准数字化坦克,装甲1师的坦克才是解放军率先准数字化的装备。这同样反应一个事实,军工部门在数字化浪潮中落后于装甲兵部队建设的。并不是如“DA 师”一样自以为是的搞一些“高科技装备”就是“数字化部队”了,信息化建设首先是一场思想的革命。美军提出了“行动中心战”,以作战行动为中心而非过去以作战计划为中心。在这种信息化部队建设思想的辐射下,不是有什么装备才能打什么仗,而是打什么仗需要什么装备的,更不是能够研制出什么装备才计划什么样的战争的。这一切都需要试验验证,第一个验证就是未来战场装甲兵究竟需要什么?以行动为中心,必然抛弃“DA师”这种“理论型”的“以装备为中心”的思想。不是以现有装备打赢未来战争,而是不管有什么样的装备,未来战争都要打赢,因此才需要提高包括装备在内的整个部队的建设。

Large LCD screen in the tank
45f00cb50104rcu7.jpg

45f00cb50104rcud.jpg


Command Post
45f00cb50104rcv8.jpg

45f00cb50104rcv9.jpg
 

hallo84

New Member
What do you mean by "able to take on"?
Means
Fire on the run, digital calibration of the gun and higher hit rate of first shot enabling it to compete with 38th GA's type 99.

1st Div armour was meant to be blue flag agressors but due to limited ability of equipement they could not perform that role to the fullest in the past.

Being the first fully digitized armour div means it now experiments with what was once theoretical docterine on a divisional level. The changes include reaction menuvre centric docterine unlike the previously thought DA style equipement centric warfare. Note type99 isn't digitized yet which also imply 38th GA is still fighting the old fashioned way albit with new equipement.
 
Last edited:

kw64

Junior Member
It's a lot like putting new water into an old vase. No matter how they refit 059's fire control system, the tank structure is still from the 1950's, its steel structure and engines have experienced much stress and wearings. It's way past the time for those tanks to retire.
 

Troika

Junior Member
It's a lot like putting new water into an old vase. No matter how they refit 059's fire control system, the tank structure is still from the 1950's, its steel structure and engines have experienced much stress and wearings. It's way past the time for those tanks to retire.

1) T-59s were made well into the late '80s, so some of the frames would still be quite new. With 10000+ samples manufactured, I am sure the ones left in service would be the ones in best condition.
2) The value of a large, modernised T-59 fleet is not so much in themselves, as in the ability to keep a large pool of personnel trained in relatively modern tank operation. You can't build T-96s/99s in time or quantity to do that.
3) Against most modern tanks, yes. Taiwan, however, ALSO fields late '50s era tanks, so does North Korea.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
They could always latter retrofit the Type 59s to become heavy IFVs, which would come in handy if the CMC ever decided to invade Taiwan.

Besides, the PLA might be waiting for the next MBT design before completely junking all the Cold War era equipment (they don't seem to be particularly thrilled by the ZTZ-96 or ZTZ-99, though those are very good tanks in their own rights)
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
digital calibration of the gun
Hmm? There's only two calibers, 100 and 105s. You mean the gun being able to ID the type of round being loaded?

Having all those computers onboard helps with space, but the second the tank gets any type of hit, lethal or not, it's going to turn into junk.

BTW, how standardised are China's 1st generation tanks?
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Hmm? There's only two calibers, 100 and 105s. You mean the gun being able to ID the type of round being loaded?

Having all those computers onboard helps with space, but the second the tank gets any type of hit, lethal or not, it's going to turn into junk.

BTW, how standardised are China's 1st generation tanks?

More like the ballistic characteristics of the gun itself is automatically calibrated and compensated for by the ballistic computer.
 

King_Comm

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Note that the article talked about a case which tanks obtain information from recon assets in real time, the time required for recon to discover targets, then pass the information to battalion HQ and then HQ allocates the targets to individual tanks, then individual tanks search, track and engage their respective targets is 30 seconds, with no verbal communication or manual operation required.
 

eckherl

New Member
More like the ballistic characteristics of the gun itself is automatically calibrated and compensated for by the ballistic computer.

There is no reason why you cannot upgrade the maingun to 125mm, Pakistan has started do this along with a ERA upgrade package.
 

Top