AESA Radar to India

walter

Junior Member
Decision Pending on U.S.'s APG-79 AESA Radar to India

Aviation Week & Space Technology
11/07/2005, page 21

Edited by Patricia J. Parmalee


Printed headline: Radar Reasoning

The U.S. is to announce by Nov. 22 whether it will offer APG-79 AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar to India. It's the only major sub-system yet to be cleared by the Bush administration for sale to that country as part of the 126 medium-range combat aircraft procurement bid. If cleared, India will be the first country to be offered the radar.
 

walter

Junior Member
well, it would be part of the deal if it gets cleared. we will have to wait until the 22nd before we know if it gets approved.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
India Investigating F/A-18 Super Hornet AESA Radars, AH-64D Apaches
Posted 03-Nov-2005 10:01
Related stories: Alliances, Americas - USA, Asia - India, Boeing, Budgets, Europe - France, Europe - Other, Force Structure, Issues - International, Issues - Political, Lobbying, Lockheed Martin, Other Corporation, Policy - Procurement, RFPs
Also on this day: 03-Nov-2005 »
F-18E_Super_Hornet.jpg
F/A-18E Super Hornet

DID has reported on India's deepening relationship with the USA before, and on its multi-billion lightweight fighter competition that recently added US fighters like the F-16 to the platforms under consideration.

It would appear that one can also add the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet to the list of aircraft under serious consideration by India - and the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter as well.
ELEC APG-79 AESA Radar
A/N APG-79 AESA Radar

ENS reports that a November 21-22 meeting at the Pentagon will convey America's decision re: whether to offer the Super Hornet's top-secret AN/APG-79 AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar. If cleared, India will be the first country to be offered this particular radar, though it would not be the first to be offered comparable AESA radars by the USA. The UAE already flies F-16 Block 60 aircraft equipped with the AN/APG-80 AESA radar, and country participants in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program will be offered the equally advanced AN/APG-81 AESA radar as part of that aircraft's standard equipment.

The AN/APG-79 AESA radar, with its dual mode air-air and air-ground capabilities, is the only major sub-system yet to be cleared by for sale to India as part of the offer of 126 fighters. Every other part of the potential offers has cleared Congressional scrutiny.
AIR_AH-64D_Apache_Longbow_Kuwait.jpg
Apache Longbow
(click to view full)

On another front, the Indian Air Force has an expressed need for 80 new attack helicopters. ENS also reports that the US will soon offer its top of the line AH-64D Apache Longbow to fill that need. The IAF is in the market for light and agile assault helicopters for possible use in counter-insurgency operations, and HAL's indigenous Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) is estimated to take at least another decade before it will see service.

DID Op/Ed Thoughts & Analysis:

If India does proceed with its attack helicopter project, the Apache Longbow will likely have company. Competitors ranging from the Russian Mi-28 Havoc and IAI/Kamov Ka-50/52 Black Shark, to the Eurocopter Tiger, South Africa's Denel Rooivalk, and Bell AH-1Z King Cobra, et. al. can be expected to express interest; many of these contenders will also bid if allowed. The Apache Longbow's expense has given other allies pause before, and India's defense budget is limited and subject to political pressure. It will be interesting to see whether attach helicopters becomes a serious procurement priority for India, and if so what kind of cost pressures enter into the equation.

With respect to the AESA radar, the India/US relationship is at something of a dating stage. It is not unusual, therefore, to see dating behaviours - including tests of one's partner that are not backed by real intentions.

Before reading too much into these inquiries re: India's buying intentions, it's worthwhile to recall the hangover effects from US military equipment sanctions in the wake of India's 1998 nuclear tests. Sources at the US Embassy told The Indian Express that the inclusion of the APG-79 AESA radar in an American offer will effectively offset New Delhi's fear of sanctions, which DID noted has made many players in India leery of American military hardware.

That reassurance of commitment may well be all that this meeting represents. While receiving America's most advanced naval aircraft may have some allure and prestige value, in reality the Super Hornet doesn't add up very well given India's needs.

With India looking to expand its carrier force over the next decade, the carrier-capable F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets could appear attractive. Yet its $60-70 million price tag is far above the $20-30 million range typical of the lightweight fighter class (and indeed, of earlier F/A-18 Hornet models), and upon which India's expected 126-plane order is predicated.

Given that the lightweight fighter order is intended to replace some of India's 300-350 aging and dangerous MiG-21s that are slated for retirement, cutting the order to 50-60 Super Hornets seems like a bit of a leap given India's needs on multiple fronts. The F/A-18 also requires full catapult launch facilities if used in a naval role, which would preclude its naval use on either India's present Viraat or its next carrier, the ski-jump equipped INS Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov) which is currently envisioned to carry naval MiG-29Ks. Furthermore, India already flies the excellent Sukhoi SU-30MKI, a fighter with a similar price tag to the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet but superior combat range, weaponry, maneuverability, and overall performance.

The logic of an F/A-18 Super Hornet buy thus seems somewhat thin, though as is the case with cars, logic does not always win out when making purchases.
AIR_F-35_JSF_Over_Carrier.jpg

One plane that could serve India very well in both naval and land roles would be the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter STOVL, which is also equipped with an AESA radar. It's noteworthy that India has pointedly been invited to F-35 Joint Strike Fighter events, and that the coming US Quadrennial Defense Review is expected to result in cutbacks of the USA's F-35 orders. Purchases by India would be one way of offsetting those cutbacks, thus keeping the program in the $45-55 million per plane range.

While membership in the F-35 JSF production team is essentially closed due to the design's advanced timeline status, the JSF STOVL would still be a less expensive option than the F/A-18 Super Hornet, giving the IAF a prestigious mid-range option with affordable stealth features and the ability to operate from any of India's carriers. If the indigenous LCA Tejas lightweight fighter project can get itself on track and become a success, India's Air Force would have a strong 3-tier base (Su-30 family, F-35B STOVL, LCA Tejas) for its future fighter force.
AIR_LCA_Tejas_Underside.jpg
LCA Tejas
(click to view full)

What seems to be keeping the Joint Strike Fighter from active consideration is the belief by Indian officials that the F-35 will not be combat-ready in numbers before 2015. Given the program's planned IOC date of 2013, this is a reasonable assumption. By then, however, even the IAF's 125 upgraded MiG-21 BiS 'Bisons' would be slated for retirement. Worse, the purchase would do nothing to fill the immediate gaps created by the mothballing and accident rate of the other MiG-21 aircraft.

This is not to say that some kind of innovative deal involving a 'bridge' of leased F-16s couldn't be worked out, if the USA really wanted to sell the F-35B JSF to India and India saw the aircraft as an excellent fit. So far, however, neither party has made a move in this direction and India is considering a joint development pact with Russia for its next generation fighter needs.

The F-16 has elicited very little interest in India from the moment it was proposed. When that observation is combined with India's delivery timing needs, expressed concerns re: platform proliferation within its force, new foreign procurement rules, dropping fighter strength, and budgetary priorities, it's reasonable to assume that India sees the US offer of F-16 and F/A-18 aircraft as more of a testing opportunity than a buying opportunity.

Given that, and the JAS-39 Gripen's long odds, the best bets in India's lightweight fighter competition would still seem to be the French Mirage 2000-5 and Russian Mig-29M2.

For now, at least.

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swimmerXC

Unregistered
VIP Professional
Registered Member
MIGleader said:
omg!!! is this supposed to part of an f-18 deal? the apg-79 is pretty lethal.
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don't be mad, this will just piss off the russian even more seeing their buddy buying US weapons...
 

ArjunMk1

Junior Member
India will never go for it !! Trust me ! :)

It will give Uncle Sam a free ticket to sell (gift ?) weapons to Pakistan !!!
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
swimmerXC said:
don't be mad, this will just piss off the russian even more seeing their buddy buying US weapons...

damn..thats even worse. when putin realizes he's going to lose sales to anmerica, hes simply going to offer more advanced weaponry, such as the phazotron ph or phazotron ms. definitly stuff hes not going to sell to china. thats why china needs the embargo lift from europe.
 

tphuang

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
I'm pretty sure mfe would get offered to china as part of the su-35bm deal. As for AESA radar, let's see if the congress will allow this.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
If India gets the AESA, Pakistan will by no doubt demand something very similar to it. Congress has to think this over very carefully.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Since India has access to weapons produced from Russia and EU, the US has little choice but to offer something comparable or better. I'd imagine the French would make a competitive offer with Mirage-2000-5 mk2 or Mirage-2000-9's as well.

IMO between the Mirage-2000 and the MiG-29, I'd rather buy the more expensive Mirage-2000 if France is willing to include the RDY-2 radar. Unlike the US, the French is less likely to restrict weapons export, and the latest offerings from MBDA are just as good as US weapons.
 
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