054B/next generation FFG thread


Andy1974

Junior Member
Registered Member
With new 052s and the possibility of a new 055 having just been spotted, my hope is more commonality across the updated 3 classes.

For each of these classes (054B, 052DL+, and 055A) and as Tam said, I think the hulls and engine types remain the same, though hopefully cheaper.

It’s very interesting that we may be getting new batches of all 3 types simultaneously.

They will probably just update each element on each ship individually, but one possibility is that they each have a new and common integrated mast, perhaps scalable to each ships size. Each ship can have 2 masts, one unique to the class, and one shared among all types.

Another hope is for more automation on board as well as better crew facilities and more support for unmanned, off board vehicles which will aid the transition to a proper 057.

I am also expecting plenty of export orders among BRI and GSI countries with their own unique configs.
 

charles18

New Member
Registered Member
....
This isn't about what you or I think should go into a ship. Its about what they think.
...
I can assure you I do Not have anything emotionally invested in regards to marine propulsion systems. Hypothetically speaking even if the job was offered to me I would decline. There's other people out there, more qualified than me, they can have the job.
anyways:
I believe in the "long run" the PLAN will choose nuclear propulsion......but that's a separate topic.
 

optionsss

Junior Member
I don't see the need for a new class of 054b, if they are just 054a with minor upgrades, PLA already have plenty of 054a and they kind of max the mission capability of that hull. If 054b is just 054a with minor upgrades, this might save money now, but it doesn't future proof a class of ship that might serve for many years to come. Any new class of major surface combatant PLAN introduce should have enough electrical energy for direct energy weapons and space to store and operate unmanned platforms.
 

externallisting

New Member
Registered Member
I thoroughly appreciate Tam's thoughtful posts these past few pages. I don't understand the fixation on top speed as if it is some metric by which modern day frigate duties are conducted. Anti piracy patrols at 32 knots is a waste of machinery and fuel.. Higher speed ASW duties? Helo. Maybe too many WoWS players.

Unlike some other navies the PLAN actually has the lo version of the hi-lo mix in this vessel. This frigate doesnt need to perform outsize roles because there are destroyers/cruisers/other vessels being built for that. The frigate just needs to be "good enough", no need to compare armament to israeli/ russian / uk ships which are as much a function of budgets as they are ambition.

The fact that the 054b is really just an updated 054a shouldn't really surprise anyone either. We won't get a 055 or 002 every year.. Yet I will be disappointed if the UVLS doesn't feature in some capacity, I admit.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I thoroughly appreciate Tam's thoughtful posts these past few pages. I don't understand the fixation on top speed as if it is some metric by which modern day frigate duties are conducted. Anti piracy patrols at 32 knots is a waste of machinery and fuel.. Higher speed ASW duties? Helo. Maybe too many WoWS players.

Unlike some other navies the PLAN actually has the lo version of the hi-lo mix in this vessel. This frigate doesnt need to perform outsize roles because there are destroyers/cruisers/other vessels being built for that. The frigate just needs to be "good enough", no need to compare armament to israeli/ russian / uk ships which are as much a function of budgets as they are ambition.

The fact that the 054b is really just an updated 054a shouldn't really surprise anyone either. We won't get a 055 or 002 every year.. Yet I will be disappointed if the UVLS doesn't feature in some capacity, I admit.

High speed ASW doesn't exist, because both active and passive sonars do not work at high speed with the rushing water around them and your own machinery making high noise. You need to be at a slow speed to make them work. Sprinting and then turning the engines off only work to some degree because the ship still has to slow down to a point before the sonars work. You might find it to be more time efficient to be slow and steady.

If it does not then
what will protect the carrier groups from enemy submarines?

You cannot protect a carrier group from submarines if you expect frigates to hug a carrier and tag along with it at high speeds. Submarines can launch missiles and torpedoes at you from a good distance. For this to work the ASW ships have to screen ahead of the carrier group and work on their own to hunt subs. You also need submarines on your side too to screen ahead of the carrier group. These frigates and subs, along with patrol planes, have to screen and clear the waters ahead of the carrier group. So you're not looking at top speed here but planning. Once again, sonars don't work at high speeds, the ship has to be either slow or stopped.
 

charles18

New Member
Registered Member
High speed ASW doesn't exist, because both active and passive sonars do not work at high speed with the rushing water around them and your own machinery making high noise. You need to be at a slow speed to make them work. Sprinting and then turning the engines off only work to some degree because the ship still has to slow down to a point before the sonars work. You might find it to be more time efficient to be slow and steady.



You cannot protect a carrier group from submarines if you expect frigates to hug a carrier and tag along with it at high speeds. Submarines can launch missiles and torpedoes at you from a good distance. For this to work the ASW ships have to screen ahead of the carrier group and work on their own to hunt subs. You also need submarines on your side too to screen ahead of the carrier group. These frigates and subs, along with patrol planes, have to screen and clear the waters ahead of the carrier group. So you're not looking at top speed here but planning. Once again, sonars don't work at high speeds, the ship has to be either slow or stopped.
The US-navy uses some of its Arleigh Burke class destroyers for ASW.

The Arleigh Burke is powered by 4 gas turbines and can exceed 30 knots. It was designed to be able to keep up with a fast moving carrier.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
The US-navy uses some of its Arleigh Burke class destroyers for ASW.

The Arleigh Burke is powered by 4 gas turbines and can exceed 30 knots. It was designed to be able to keep up with a fast moving carrier.

They need to slow down to use their own ship sonars. If they are going full speed you have to rely on your helicopters to use dipping sonars on positions ahead around the group. Burke use bow sonars and passive towed array sonars but lately some ships have upgraded to using active towed sonars (VDS by European lingo) whereas all of 052D, newer half of 054A and all of 056A come standard with VDS along with obligatory hull and passive towed sonars.
 

Top