Syria Shoots Down Turkish Fighter Jet

Franklin

Captain
Re: Turkey shells Syria back

Turkey 'responds to fresh Syrian mortar fire'

Turkey has fired into Syria for a fourth day after a Syrian mortar landed near a Turkish village, reports say.

Turkish troops responded immediately after the mortar landed near the village of Guvecci in Hatay province, according to Turkey's Anadolu Agency.

Turkey has been firing into Syria since Syrian mortar fire killed five Turkish civilians on Wednesday.

It was the first time Turkey has taken military action across the border since the Syrian uprising began.

Early on Saturday, the Anadolu Agency said the Syrian mortar had landed over the border during intense fighting between government troops and rebels in Syria's Idlib province.

The rebels are fighting to topple Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's government in an uprising that began in March last year.

There were no immediate reports of casualties on the Turkish side.

Following the killing of two women and three children in the Turkish border town of Akcakale this week, Turkey's parliament authorised troops to launch cross-border operations against Syria and strike at Syrian targets for a period of one year.

The UN Security Council said the incident showed the "grave impact" of the Syrian crisis on "regional peace and stability".

On Friday, Turkey moved tanks and anti-aircraft missiles into Akcakale, though Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his country did not want war.

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delft

Brigadier
Re: Turkey shells Syria back

Random mortar bombs falling in Turkey will not serve any purpose for the Syrian government, but some in Turkey want to intervene in Syria and it seems the rebels stand no chance of winning without outside intervention. So we come to the classic question - in whose interest is firing mortars into Turkey?
Btw we hear only anecdotal evidence of Syrians wanting the rebels to win ( yesterday on BBC WS for example ), but hardly anyone dare claim that the Syrians in favor of the rebels outnumber those in favor of the government.
 

icbeodragon

Junior Member
Re: Turkey shells Syria back

Random mortar bombs falling in Turkey will not serve any purpose for the Syrian government, but some in Turkey want to intervene in Syria and it seems the rebels stand no chance of winning without outside intervention. So we come to the classic question - in whose interest is firing mortars into Turkey?
Btw we hear only anecdotal evidence of Syrians wanting the rebels to win ( yesterday on BBC WS for example ), but hardly anyone dare claim that the Syrians in favor of the rebels outnumber those in favor of the government.

Considering the situation its very possible there is a break in communication in the chain of command or that the mortars are overshot. Both are more likely to me than a false flag.

Hanlon's razor and all.

:edit: I swear this error that leads to double posts.... hope it gets fixed soon.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
what were the Syrians even doing firing mortars close to the border in the first place?

another reckless act by Syrian forces

I am glad Today Turkish Air Force forced down the Syrian airliner, Russians are complaining in support of Syria

next step for Turkey is to directly engage Syrian forces in the ground and provide ATGM and MANPADS to free Syrian army, so they can Neutralise heavy Syrian armour and also find a solution to the air attacks
 
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cn_habs

Junior Member
what were the Syrians even doing firing mortars close to the border in the first place?

another reckless act by Syrian forces

I am glad Today Turkish Air Force forced down the Syrian airliner, Russians are complaining in support of Syria

next step for Turkey is to directly engage Syrian forces in the ground and provide ATGM and MANPADS to free Syrian army, so they can Neutralise heavy Syrian armour and also find a solution to the air attacks

So the West's been arming the same Al Qaida terrorist organization they claim to fight to overthrown Assad and you think the US would be stupid enough to give those jihadists MANPADS which could end up in Afghanistan by the end of the year? Every Chinook and Blackhawk shot down could mean a dozen of American lives lost.
 
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asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Well that wouldn't be the first time would it?

Anza III has seen action in Afghanistan which was made based on the American Stinger missile which was famously supplied to the Mujahideen fitting the Soviets

The Stinger is a formidable MANPAD probably the best out there, it's record was amazing and Anza downed not only helos but also fast Indian fighter jets of the Indian air force during Kargil war in 1999, it downed a Mig-27, Mig-21 and Mi-8

Back in the day CIA worked very closely with the ISI of Pakistan, Ameircans even gave time and locations of when Soviet spy satellites used to fly over head during 1980s, there was times when the Soviet satellites flew over certain locations in every 4-6 hour intervals and CIA trained ISI in camouflage and concealment of weapons being supplied from Pakistan to Afghanistan, same tactics used today by Taliban against Ameircans i.e no radio or mobile contact using people as contacts etc etc CIA even trained Afghans on how to knock out helos using RPGs pretty good tactics employed today by Taliban

Even Libiyan fighters got lots of advanced weapons from West and Arab country's that was just last year
 

Franklin

Captain
I have the sense that the Syrian civil war is becoming the Spanish civil war of our time. On the one hand you have the Sunni Shia divide and on the other hand you have a great powers struggle on the one side the US, Europe and the GCC countries supporting the rebels. And on the other side you have Iran, Russia and China supporting the al-Assad government.

Former Shi'ite Iraqi militias backing Assad troops

Scores of Iraqi Shi'ite militants are fighting in Syria, often alongside President Bashar al-Assad's troops, and pledging loyalty to Iran's supreme Shi'ite religious leader, according to militia fighters and politicians in Iraq.

Iraqi Shi'ite militia involvement in Syria's conflict exposes how rapidly the crisis has spiralled into a proxy war between Assad's main ally Shi'ite Iran and the Sunni Arab Gulf states supporting mostly Sunni rebels fighting the president.

The conflict has already drawn in a stream of Sunni Islamist fighters from across the region attracted to the rebel cause, while on the other side Syrian rebels accuse Lebanon's Shi'ite Hezbollah of supporting Assad's troops on the ground.

For Iraqi Shi'ites who follow Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the uprising in Syria threatens Shi'ite influence and Iraqis fighting there say they see a duty to help Assad because of their loyalty to the Islamic Republic's highest authority.

Among them are defectors and former fighters from anti-U.S Iraqi cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi Army, the Iran-backed Badr group and Asaib al-Haq and Kata'ib Hezbollah, militias who once waged a bloody war on American troops, Shi'ite militants and Iraqi politicians say.

Shi'ite politicians say militants fighting in Syria have no official sanction from their militia leadership or from Iraq's Shi'ite-led government which is caught in a delicate balancing act between its ally Tehran, and Western and Arab powers calling for Assad to go.

Some of the Iraqi militants are former Mehdi Army fighters who took refugee in Syria after 2007 when their group was crushed by Iraqi forces. Others, loyal to Khamenei as a religious authority, crossed over recently, fighters and Iraqi politicians say.

"We formed the Abu al-Fadhal al-Abbas brigade which includes 500 Iraqi, Syrian and some other nationalities," an Iraqi defector from the Mehdi Army who goes by the name of Abu Hajar told Reuters by satellite telephone from Syria.

"When the fighting erupted in our areas, we carried out some joint military operations side by side with the Syrian army to clean up areas seized by rebels," said Abu Hajar, who like others was a refugee in Syria before the conflict.

The brigade is named after Abu al-Fadhl al-Abbas, a brother of Imam Hussain Bin Ali, a grandson of the Prophet Mohammed. Al-Abbas was killed with his brother more than 1,300 years ago, and since then has become a symbol of sacrifice for Shi'ite Islam.

Another Mehdi Army defector, Abu Mujahid, who recently returned from Syria to visit his family in the Iraqi city of Najaf said his group's mission in Syria was restricted to securing the famed Sayyida Zeinab Shi'ite shrine and its nearby Shi'ite neighborhoods.

But sometimes, he said, they carry out pre-emptive raids on Free Syrian Army rebel fighters, whenever they get information rebels will attack the shrine, offices of Shi'ite religious leaders, known as Marjaiya, and Shi'ite neighbourhoods.

"Our mission is securing the shrine, the Shi'ite areas and the Marjaiya offices," Abu Mujahid said. "We have no clear battlefield, but, from time to time, we carry out raids with the army on the sites of the Free Syrian Army."

MARTYRS AND TORTURE

Syrian rebels consider the Shi'ite militants a pro-Assad militia. Some have been captured and killed in combat, militants and local families in Iraq said.

In Baghdad's Ameen Shi'ite neighbourhood, a large recently erected billboard shows the photograph of a bearded Mehdi Army militant who the poster proclaims became a "matyr" in February. Neighbourhood families say he was killed in fighting in Syria.

A video posted on YouTube last month by Syrian rebels showed a young man named as Ahmed al-Maksosi whose face appeared to be swollen with signs of beating and torture as he confessed that he was a Mehdi Army fighter.

Iraqi Shi'ite militants said Maksosi was one of their comrades fighting with them in one of the Sayyida Zeinab neighborhoods. They said he was kidnapped and tortured by the FSA before he was killed.

Abu Mujahid, Abu Hajar and Iraqi Shi'ite politicians with knowledge of the militias said those who went to Syria were individual volunteers traveling with their own passports through regular routes.

They said there were contacts responsible for receiving and organizing volunteers, arming them and directing them to tasks, but all were facing the problem of funding, much of which they said came from some Iraqi merchants in Syria.

The Badr organization, Asaib al-Haq and Mehdi Army leaders told Reuters they had not sent fighters to Syria because they believe the upheaval was an internal affair. Sending fighters would be an intervention in the Syrian affairs.

"We have not sent any people to Syria...some people think fighting in Syria is legitimate, so maybe individuals went there without coordinating with their leaders," said a senior Badr organization leader, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Syria's upheaval is a political nightmare for Iraq's Shiite led government which believes a messy fall of Assad would fracture Syria along sectarian lines and yield a hostile, hardline Sunni Muslim regime that could stir up Iraq's own combustible Sunni-Shi'ite communal mix.

Iraq says it has a policy of non-interference in Syria - but stays close to Tehran's position by refusing to endorse Western and Arab League demands for the removal of Assad, whose Alawite minority faith is an offshoot of Shi'ite Islam.

The United States, European allies, Turkey and Gulf Arab states have sided with the Syrian opposition while Iran, Russia and China have backed Assad, whose family and minority Alawite sect have dominated Syria for 42 years.

IRAN'S INFLUENCE

Shi'ite-ruled Iran has tried to counter a perceived drive by Western and U.S.-aligned Sunni Muslim nations to roll back its own power in the Middle East and fears success for the Sunni-led uprising in Syria.

Iraqi militants and politicians say there appear to be no Iranian fighters on the ground in Syria, but there were Lebanese Hezbollah experts and officers training people.

"Iran is working there by using Hezbollah, there are officers and militants from Hezbollah-Lebanon training the citizens and developing their fighting skills and abilities," Iraqi militant Abu Mujahid said.

Iran has nominated a senior Iraqi Shi'ite leader within Badr - whose political wing ISCI is closely backed by Tehran - to control militant groups and coordinate between the Syrian government and the Iraqi Shi'ite groups, a politician allied with the militia groups said.

"Syria's army troops cannot hold all the ground," said Abu Mujahid. "They come for an hour or two, daily, to liberate the seized areas from the rebels and leave the rest up to us and the Shi'ite residents of these areas."

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I have the sense that the Syrian civil war is becoming the Spanish civil war of our time. On the one hand you have the Sunni Shia divide and on the other hand you have a great powers struggle on the one side The US, Europe and the GCC countries supporting the rebels. And on the other side you have Iran, Russia and China supporting the al-Assad government.



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I think the Spanish civil war analogy is apt for among the Middle Eastern countries, however the outside powers are not ideologically aligned with the combatant sides as was the case with the Spanish civil war.
 
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