SU 30 vrs. Mirage 2000

Sczepan

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The german "FLIEGERREVUE"
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wrote in 09/2005 (print) an article about the airfight manoever "Garuda II".
"A team of Six Sukhoi fighters backed by two IL-78 mid air refuellers was part in the joint Indo-French fighter exercises", Air Vice Marshal S C Mukul said in New Delhi.
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According to the article a french Mirage-pilot sad after the dogfights: "God, this monster (SU 30) is agile; if you don't kill them at the first shoot, you'll never have the next chance".
Didn't the PLAAF and PLAN (SU-30) vrs. Taiwan (Mirage 2000) have the same type of aircrafts?
 
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adeptitus

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Sczepan said:
Didn't the PLAAF and PLAN (SU-30) vrs. Taiwan (Mirage 2000) have the same type of aircrafts?

Yes, but the equipment installed on PLAAF's Su-30's and Taiwan's Mirage-2000-5's are older in comparison to the Indian Su-30MKI, and the latest version of the Mirage-2000 in use by French AF today.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
well, i guess the result would be similar, since mkk<mki, and taiwan mirage<france mirage. the su-27 radar does have short range, but taiwan is to close to shin for that to matter. an su-27 can see well acroos taiwan strait.
 

Fairthought

Junior Member
Actually,

the avionics on board the Indian Su-30MKI IS the same on board the mirage 2000-5. No conclusion can be inferred from this regarding a hypothetical Su-30mkk Taiwanese mirage 2000-5 encounter.

since we can't make any logical deductions, we might as well speculate.
first: The taiwanese fighter probably has a higher 'first shoot' kill probability because of its better avionics.
Second: The MKK probably has a higher proceeding shoot kill probability because of its better agility.

since the 'first shoot' is most likely BVR, this translates into a very small advantage, as all BVR has a low likelihood of an actual hit. So long as the Mirage avionics can't jam the Su-30MKK firecontrol system, especially in WVR, then the Sukhoi jet has the advantage.
 

jatt

Junior Member
Sorry to interupt but India used the Su-30K not the MKI varient in this exericise. That would be why the French Mirage 2000-5 had great BVR advantage on the Flanker because of the EW suite. India still uses the K varient of exercises until it will be upgraded to MKI standard. I believe the missile it used was the R-77 AAM.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
Fairthought said:
Actually,

the avionics on board the Indian Su-30MKI IS the same on board the mirage 2000-5. No conclusion can be inferred from this regarding a hypothetical Su-30mkk Taiwanese mirage 2000-5 encounter.

since we can't make any logical deductions, we might as well speculate.
first: The taiwanese fighter probably has a higher 'first shoot' kill probability because of its better avionics.
Second: The MKK probably has a higher proceeding shoot kill probability because of its better agility.

since the 'first shoot' is most likely BVR, this translates into a very small advantage, as all BVR has a low likelihood of an actual hit. So long as the Mirage avionics can't jam the Su-30MKK firecontrol system, especially in WVR, then the Sukhoi jet has the advantage.

the mirage's rdm radar only has a range of aroungd 100 km, which is even less than the su-30's.its actually a quite manuverablew plane, but no match for the mkk. plus, china can still upgrade tis mkk's, while taiwans 2000's are never going get a decent upgrade. france is just to friendly with china.
 

tphuang

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MIGleader said:
the mirage's rdm radar only has a range of aroungd 100 km, which is even less than the su-30's.its actually a quite manuverablew plane, but no match for the mkk. plus, china can still upgrade tis mkk's, while taiwans 2000's are never going get a decent upgrade. france is just to friendly with china.
I have my doubts about the radar on su-30mkks, let's just leave it there. But yeah, the taiwanese mirage 2K are nowhere near one of the later variants, so I don't think their capabilities are really that high.

As for avionics, I read that the latest mirage-2k5 has the same avionics as the one on Rafael, that's pretty awesome stuff.
 
jatt said:
Sorry to interupt but India used the Su-30K not the MKI varient in this exericise. That would be why the French Mirage 2000-5 had great BVR advantage on the Flanker because of the EW suite. India still uses the K varient of exercises until it will be upgraded to MKI standard. I believe the missile it used was the R-77 AAM.

I think most of us already knows that.
 

Lavi

Junior Member
The Mirage is built with a completly different scenario in mind, namely as a fast high-altitude interceptor and not a manuverable dogfighter. This means that the Mirage should try to stay out of dogfights at all costs and rely on medium- and long-range missiles to fight of incoming hostiles. If it can do this, then it is very deadly.

For Taiwan this is a problem, because if the Mirages retreat away from incoming raiders (Chinese Su-27) that would leave the island unprotected, which means that the Mirages need to meet any incoming attackers at a position far west, and when the enemy force close in, they can't retreat. The best thing would be to let the Mirages fight behind a screen of more manouverable fighters (like the F-16 or Ching-Kuo).
 
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