Star Wars & Sc-Fi Talk

Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by bd popeye, May 26, 2011.

  1. AssassinsMace
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    AssassinsMace Brigadier

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    I had to watch parts of it again. Captain Pike says to Kirk he has the instinct to leap before he looks like his father. So Kirk taking risks wasn't because of the events of the USS Kelvin. Therefore he wasn't any different from Kirk Prime. Star Trek travelling back in time doesn't change things automatically from the start. Spock says otherwise in the Abrams' movie but that's why it's up for debate. It's what they do what changes things like in the depiction of time travel in the original series where the Enterprise saved that air force pilot after his fighter was caught in the Enterprise tractor beam. They were going to keep him until they found out his future son not born yet played an important role in history. But according to Kelvin Spock, they affected time just by showing up in the 1960s hence the future they returned to would've changed drastically but it didn't. Same with saving the whales.
     
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  2. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    The degree to which I would argue KT Kirk was more risky. Prime Kirk had been tempered in his more traditional rise. Where KT Kirk was more over the top.
    another trope in trek "Unhappening"
    Tommarow is Yesterday "unhappened" when the Enterprise back tracked over its own time travel. They beamed Captain Christopher back into his cockpit and used the transporter to ensure that his jet didn't crash. All he would have been left with was his own memory.
    Infact much of trek Time travel is controlled or corrective where the crew is sent to fix something gone wrong.
    The Voyage home is a trouble maker but Enterprise crew did at least try to cover themselves.
    Still a case by case on the outcome.

    Plexi Corp ends up with the chemical formula for transparent Alluminum for the low low price of a 6' thick 40"/10" pane and a joy ride on there Bell 204.

    Results: leave it be. We know that it would take years to figure out how to make it and Plexi Corp may Well have been the patent holders in the end. After all in our own timeline ALON sure enough shows up a decade latter.

    A seemingly unwed female citation Biologists disappears after a fight with her boss.

    Resuilts: Leave it be. People disappear all the time. She was witnessed dating a odd gentlemen before the events, suspicious or could have easily been the results of depression brought on by the loss of the whales. A huge part of her life. Still it would be a year before an investigation.

    The Navy has questions about a break in on the CVN65 capturing a suspected Russian operative who then escapes without a trace from a hospital. His personal effects are the most dangerous elements a Klingon phaser and Communicator.

    Results: trouble spot! The phaser and Communicator are advanced technologies. The US DOD would have taken then for farther study. Fortunately TOS has a possible solution Gary Seven Supervisor 194 would likely have removed the devices having detected them on earth. His Job was to ensure Earths evolution went the right way.

    A Norwegian whaling crew has the heck scared out of them and tells the biggest fish story you ever heard.

    Remedial action: leave it be. No evidence just a story.

    And two Humpbacks that where about to be harpooned disappeared.

    Remedial: Leave it be. They were about to be killed by the whalers. As far as the world is concerned they were.

    City on the edge of forever is easy.
    Edith Keller's death was a forgon conclusion that was only made possible by Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
    It was the Depression. People came and went all the time.
    The closest event to what happened in 09 I would argue is Star Trek First Contact.
    When the Borg went back and assimilated Earth. But the crew of the Enterprise E went back to and stopped them. But before the Enterprise traveled back they saw an Assimilated earth.

    The Destruction of the Kelvin however never had a correction.

    No Enterprise E to follow Narada back and destroy her before the Kelvin encountered her. This is why the ramifications for the timeline were massive.
    Kirk was originally born in Iowa suddenly he is born in space. He also didn't witness the events of Kodos the Executioner nor was he a phaser operator on the faragut. He rebels against his step father well his mother is away earning him a criminal record. He didn't Join Starfleet as a legacy but needs to be pushed to it a few years later by Pike. He is Brasher Bolder more cocky and full of himself. The Prime Kirk is a bit of this but he also restrains his Leap before looking mentally. But it's only awakened by a Friend Gary Mitchell in the second Pilot Where No Man Has Gone Before.

    Second the crew of the ship that died in battle were not supposed to at least not there.
    The Kelvin was a big ship with a larger crew. Based on the math of Prime Kirk vs KT Kirk it's likely that they were on there way home and its suspected that Kirk's Mother was about to be placed in Stasus for the last few months of pregency.
    But then the ship is attacked Kirk' s father is killed.

    Third the Starfleet command suddenly were told that not only were the Romulans back but they were bolder and brought out a monster ship. By that point the Earth Romulan war was just 60 Years old. During the conflict the Romulans has been keen on keeping there faces a mystery. And at best seemed a match for Earth's forces.
    Now a Apparent Romulan ship that rivals starbases, shows up and blatantly attacks easily overpowering the Kelvin, makes open communications.

    To Starfleet the Romulans suddenly shifted from subterfuge to all up on their grill. It's a black ship type event. Going from no contact for decades to BOOM. It would have hit the Federation like 9/11. Starfleet would have shifted priorities on a dime pushing to try and match this new threat. Reinforcing for an invasion fleet bulking up what it had Delaying the new cruiser class they had on the books as it would have seemed absolutely obsolete vs this new threat. And then... nothing. No invasion no follow up. The Romulans apparently keep quiet. Starfleet is weary and places more security around the Romulan Neutral zone as a result the Klingons fell less threatened or perhaps more threatened by the Federation. Either way the war doesn't happen.
     
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  3. AssassinsMace
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    We're talking movie science. That's why Abramsverse Spock can say just people from the future just being in the past changes everything while in the Prime universe they go into the past and come back and nothing has changed. If the timeline can be corrected then Spock or anyone else could've went back in time enough to save Romulus from the supernova like they planned before. Prime Kirk wasn't by the book Picard. Did Prime Kirk not change the Kobioshi Maru while Kelvin Kirk did? In Wrath of Khan David Marcus looked at his father as a cowboy. They both didn't play by the rules. Did Prime Kirk "save the universe" a little less than Kelvin Kirk?

    In the end of Discovery season one Captain Pike shows up with the Enterprise. If there's only a two year difference between Discovery and the launch of the Enterprise in the Abramsverse, Captain Pike would not be on the Enterprise at the end of Discovery season one because the Enterprise hasn't been launched yet. Some theorize that the Discovery reemerged from the mirror universe into another alternate universe. If it's the same universe they left, they have a problem.
     
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  4. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    He wasn't as by the book as Picard but he also wants as Beasty Boys as KT. Prime Kirk played by the Rules more often than he is given credit.
    We view him more as a cowboy. And yes he was a bit of one. But how he changed the Kobiashi Maru in prime is likely not how he did it in KT.
    He says in TWOK he changed the program to make it possible to rescue the ship.
    In KT he made it ridiculously easy to destroy the Klingons and then rescue the ship.
    We will have to agree to disagree on this. It's my opinion that Shatner Kirk even in TOS was a little less wild especially as he got older vs Pine Kirk.

    Discovery is not part of "Abramsverse" it's not Kelvin timeline it's inspired by it in some areas but not others. CBS says it's "Prime Timeline" some fans have tried to argue Abramsverse but the Enterprise herself proved otherwise as well as the whole Marcus plot.
    It's intended as a Visual reboot of a pre TOS timeline.
    Where in the names and events are supposed to be the same but the tech is more modern. Pike commanded the Enterprise for years before Kirk and this is supposed to be the Enterprise of TOS.
     
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  5. AssassinsMace
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    In the prime universe Pike commanded the Enterprise before the years of Discovery. In the Abramsverse apparently there was no Enterprise between the one Captain Archer commanded and the one everyone knows from the original series until his movie. So that would go along with what Kelvin Spock said in the movie that people from the future going back in time would automatically change the course of history because USS Enterprise NCC-1701 did not exist until years after it was launched in the prime universe.

    If you go by what they say the Picard series is about, it takes place in the Abramsverse. Picard apparently retired from Star Fleet long before his prime version did because there is no Vulcan so all the events that took place on Next Generation regarding the peace treaty between Vulcan and Romulus did not happen. So Picard is now playing someone involved in the underground resistance with Romulus.

    That's the problem with Paramount Studios. If Discovery doesn't take place in the Abramsverse and now this Picard series does, they're just going to confuse their fan base. Yes they can be like Disney and Kathleen Kennedy where they just care about new audiences and don't care about fans and then they're going to get the same backlash as a result.
     
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  6. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    No, the plot line of the new Picard is not KT it's on the separation line...

    KT is a parallel reality created when the Narada and Spock were sent back from the 2380s.

    The Picard series is set in the original TNG timeline after that had happened.
    So Romulus is Destroyed.
    He is part of the events trying to put the pieces back together.


    CBS chose not to use Kelvin timeline for its shows it references events that created it but not it. So Vulcan exists Romulus doesn't. The time of the series is meant to be in The 2380s 2390s as even Patrick Stewart can't hide his age.

    The Licencing is the Issue.
    CBS Television studios, Secret Hideout Roddenberry Entertainment, Living Dead Guy Productions are the team making Discovery and would likely be that behind The Picard series.
    Bad Robot Productions and Paramount Pictures are that behind the Kelvin timeline films.
    Since they are not the same production team they can't make continuous production.
    JJ Abrams offered to make a Kelvin timeline based Trek series years back.. Again offered to make meaning Bad Robot Productions. CBS chose not to. CBS owns the rights to the TV series Paramount that of the films due to the way Viacom broke up.
     
    #1966 TerraN_EmpirE, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  7. AssassinsMace
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    I went back to an early report on the Picard series that I read where it said that Picard was highly affected by the events in JJ Abrams Star Trek. That made it sound like it took place in the Abramsverse. If it takes place in the prime universe that's crazy to have two different timelines operating. With the Star Trek movies not doing well are they going to silently push out the Abramsverse? The only movie possibly coming up is the Quentin Tarantino version.
     
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  8. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    The reports on ST4 can still be wrong. And I loath the Idea of a Tarantino take on trek.
    Star trek has always been open to Parellel realities. That's what the Mirror Universe is a Parallel reality where good is evil. That's what happened to Worf in the TNG Episode Parallels.
     
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  9. JudgeKing
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    On a more amusing note, here is the TNG opening credits with the opening theme from Dallas.
     
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  10. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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