South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

visitant

New Member
Registered Member
I think you are the one that is inserting yourself into a discussion without offering any reasonable explanation on why you think the discussion is off base. Natuna is geographically located in the SCS and according to the Indonesians there is a problem. So far it seems both governments are talking past each other but that doesn't t mean there isn't a problem. The problem in my view is the overlap between the nine dash line and Indonesia's EEZ. Given that China is unwilling to explain its legal position on the nine dash, it is attempting to avoid the issue entirely by brushing off Indonesia's contention.
I think you are too obsessed with China and miss the big picture. Though Natuna is geographically located in SCS, it's more a Singapore SCS than the dispute SCS here we are talking about.

Territory dispute in SCS is very complexed, not everything is about China, there is a theoretical small chance of dispute between China and Indonesia, but it's a long shot, from recent history to
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future, territory dispute of surrounding water of Natuna islands are major issues between Indonesia and Malaysia.
 

visitant

New Member
Registered Member
That said, I'd be surprised if they're really willing to take that route. Their relationship with China has generally been quite positive and stable, and it would throw quite a significantly sized wrench into it if Indonesia brought in a third party into the dispute... so I'd be interested to see if this remark is actually a sign of a policy shift overall, or if it's just a sign of general frustration regarding China's ambiguity regarding the nine dash line.
Sorry, forget to quote you.

This news smell more sense of media agenda setting to me, as deep as Reuters dig into SCS dispute, we should have already seen full of news like Vietnam conflicts with Cambodia, Malaysia, China, Indonesia, Philippines Brunei, basically all sides related to the issue. Why havent we? it does not fits the agenda.

I wouldnt read too much into news like this, as long as Indonesia's most disputes are with Malaysia, it's not national interests for them (basically an outsider) to jump into the north part of SCS dispute. All sides in this party choose best for their own interests, it's not difficult to understand Cambodia, Indonesia and even Malaysia (though has dispute with) team up with China, and Vietnam, Philippine (though has large of territorial claim overlapping) work together against China.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Sorry, forget to quote you.

This news smell more sense of media agenda setting to me, as deep as Reuters dig into SCS dispute, we should have already seen full of news like Vietnam conflicts with Cambodia, Malaysia, China, Indonesia, Philippines Brunei, basically all sides related to the issue. Why havent we? it does not fits the agenda.

I wouldnt read too much into news like this, as long as Indonesia's most disputes are with Malaysia, it's not national interests for them (basically an outsider) to jump into the north part of SCS dispute. All sides in this party choose best for their own interests, it's not difficult to understand Cambodia, Indonesia and even Malaysia (though has dispute with) team up with China, and Vietnam, Philippine (though has large of territorial claim overlapping) work together against China.

Yes, I do agree with you that there has been a phenomenon in media which seems to ignore or underplay the disputes that various SCS claimants have with each other without China's involvement, or by only displaying China's nine dash line in news reports without displaying the overlapping claims of other nations.

But in this case, it's also worthwhile to acknowledge the disputes that they do have with China, even if these may be focused on to a greater degree.
 

Brumby

Major
I think you are too obsessed with China and miss the big picture. Though Natuna is geographically located in SCS, it's more a Singapore SCS than the dispute SCS here we are talking about.
I think you should stick to the subject matter and the news article that Blackstone provided. If you disagree with the news article then present your arguments and not just an opinion. If you have a view that the problem is between Malaysia and Indonesia then I suggest you post it under South East Asian news together with whatever basis in support of your claim.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Visitant, you have been a member for a long time, but only have taken part rarely.

You inserted yourself into a discussion other's were having and your intial basis was incorrect. It is in the SCS. When that was pointe out to you, rather than simply accept it, you then go on to speak of the Singapore SCS.

Here

Brumby, you are carrying on a meaningless argument which is developing into arguments about your and the other posters opinions and nuances.

Both of you need to stop and get on with the relevant discussion on this thread, which is abpout SCS Strategies,

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
By the prickling of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes...

US, Japan Put South China Sea at the Forefront of Asia Summits
It’s a week for summit diplomacy in Asia, with leaders’ meetings both in the Philippines, for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit from November 18-19 and then in Malaysia for the ASEAN and East Asia Summits. The result of these gatherings of top regional leaders means a time for diplomatic focus on areas of concern – and in the Asian context, that means a heavy emphasis on the South China Sea disputes.

China has already made its position clear that APEC, at least, is not a proper place for discussing the South China Sea disputes. During a
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, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi carried the message that China did not want the maritime disputes, involving overlapping claims from Brunei, China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam, on the agenda. Philippine officials have said they would not raise the issue themselves, but would not prevent others from doing so.

The United States, at least, seems determined to put the issue at least on participants’ minds, even if it doesn’t appear in any formal declarations. National Security Advisor Susan Rice
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last week that the South China Sea “will be a central issue of discussion, both at the East Asia Summit as well as the ASEAN-U.S. Summit and the other engagements that we have throughout our visit to Asia.”

It didn’t take long to make that promise a reality. After arriving in Manila, President Barack Obama toured the flagship of the Philippine navy, the BRP Gregorio del Pilar – which also happens to be a former U.S. Coast Guard vessel. Obama pointed to the ship as a symbol of U.S.-Philippine maritime cooperation.

“My visit here underscores our shared commitment to the security of the waters of this region and to the freedom of navigation,”
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just after touring the Gregorio del Pilar. He also announced the transfer of two additional vessels to the Philippine Navy: “a research vessel to help map its territorial waters, and another U.S. Coast Guard cutter to bolster the Navy’s ability to conduct long-endurance patrols.” While Obama didn’t specifically mention the South China Sea disputes, that’s the context in which U.S. officials most often raise concerns about freedom of navigation, and the reason Washington is so keen to
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in its allies and regional partners.

Obama also raised the South China Sea disputes in a meeting with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull,
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its “very important for us simply to uphold the basic principle that these issues should be resolved by international norms and rule of law, and peacefully settled.”

Tomorrow, when Obama meets with Philippine President Benigno Aquino III, the disputes will also be at the forefront of the agenda. Obama is likely to repeat the security assurances he made in his remarks on Tuesday, when he spoke of Washington’s “ironclad commitment to the defense of our ally the Philippines.”

The United States is not alone in bringing up the South China Sea disputes. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has also been discussing the issue at bilateral meetings, including those on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Turkey earlier this week. During bilateral meetings with prime ministers of the
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and
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, Abe made sure to mention his hope for deeper cooperation to ensure respect for the “rule of law” and freedom of navigation in East Asia.

China, meanwhile, is playing defense on the issue. Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin told reporters on Tuesday that China wants the summits to focus on promoting economic growth, rather than the South China Sea disputes. But he also acknowledged this is unlikely to happen: “Although we don’t want to see the South China Sea issue became a hot topic at the summit, it is unavoidable that some countries may take up the matter,” Liu said,
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.

Liu also portrayed China as the victim of the disputes, saying other countries had illegally seized islands and features in the Spratlys that rightfully belong to China. He said China has shown “great restraint” by not retaking the features in question. “The Chinese government has the right and the ability to recover the islands and reefs illegally occupied by neighboring countries,”
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“But we haven’t done this.” Liu also repeated China’s defense of its construction in the South China Sea, saying it was primarily for civilian purposes – but also necessary for national security, as “some countries [are] making a show of force in the area.”

China’s Foreign Ministry responded particularly sharply to Japan’s interest in the issue. Spokesperson Hong Lei
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that China was “dissatisfied” with Abe’s frequent references to the disputes, and accused Japan of “hyping up” the disputes. “We urge the Japanese side to stop making groundless accusations on the South China Sea issue,” Hong said.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
If there's any lingering doubt Asian states want no part of militarily confrontations in the SCS, Japan just served up an object lesson.

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Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said the Self-Defense Forces will not join U.S. freedom of navigation operations in the South China Sea, just days after telling President Barack Obama he would consider the move.

The SDF does not engage in regular surveillance activities in the South China Sea at the moment and has no concrete plans to do so, Abe said Sunday at a news conference in Kuala Lumpur.

He said the U.S. operations, conducted to contest China’s territorial claims in the sea, including construction of artificial islands, are separate from SDF activities and Japan will not participate.

At a bilateral meeting with Obama in Manila on Thursday, Abe expressed his intention to consider SDF participation in surveillance activities in the South China Sea, drawing immediate opposition at home.

However, following the East Asia Summit in Kuala Lumpur, which brought together leaders of Asia-Pacific countries including the 10 Association of Southeast Asian Nations members, Japan, China, South Korea and the United States, he has ruled it out.

In the wake of the terrorist attacks in Paris on Nov. 13, Abe flagged strengthening international cooperation in anti-terrorism measures, condemning the attacks as a clear challenge to universal values of humankind.

The government will set up a new unit in the Foreign Ministry to gather international information on terrorism in early December, Abe said.

Regarding the Trans-Pacific Partnership multilateral free trade pact, which was broadly agreed on last month by Japan, the United States and 10 other countries, Abe said the government would endeavor to achieve Diet approval as soon as possible.

Abe reaffirmed the government will map out a package of effective measures to cushion the domestic impact of the pact in a bid to relieve public anxieties.

The package is expected to be adopted as early as Wednesday.
 

Brumby

Major
UK requests observer status in legal dispute over South China Sea islands

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The UK has formally requested the status of “neutral observer”
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over possession of islands in the South China Sea.

The Foreign Office says the diplomatic move, in an area where Britain has no direct territorial interests, is a routine intervention in international maritime affairs.

But the timing of the request has prompted suggestions that Beijing has asked London to get involved as a potential go-between in the military standoff between China, the
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, other Asian nations and even the US.

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is boycotting the hearing, alleging that the permanent court of arbitration (PCA) in The Hague does not have jurisdiction to hear the issue. The UN-appointed tribunal adjudicates in international disagreements over maritime territory.

The case, which began on Tuesday, comes as China steps up its programme of building airstrips and defences in the contested Spratly Islands. Last month, the US raised the stakes by
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around two artificial islands in the archipelago. China responded by accusing the US of “provocative actions”.

The legal action has been brought by the Philippines, which accuses China of establishing illegal bases in its waters. The hearing is, unusually, entirely closed and confidential, although some neighbouring nations have sought observer status at the proceedings.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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But the timing of the request has prompted suggestions that Beijing has asked London to get involved as a potential go-between in the military standoff between China, the
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, other Asian nations and even the US.

I wonder what the benefits of this for China would be, if any, and why they would seek this at all.
 
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