South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by PanAsian, Mar 27, 2015.

  1. Brumby
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    Brumby Major

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    The distinction between "rule of law" and "rule buy law" requires explanation. At its most basic level, the former is an objective rule set at the pointy end of the hierarchy. The concept of "Rule by law" is that it is merely a rule set subservient to a higher governing body. Since the latter is "subject to", any application, meaning, enforcement and interpretation is also subject to that body. A WSJ article was written on it. The relevant content I have reproduced for you..

    http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...china-a-preposition-makes-all-the-difference/
     
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  2. Blackstone
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    Blackstone Brigadier

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    The WSJ article describes why there might not have sharp distinctions between rule of and rule by law. But, what of it? Do you have specific criticisms or concerns specifically concerning the two topics vis-a-vis China and the West? If so, list them if you wish to discuss and debate.
     
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  3. PanAsian
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    PanAsian Major

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    Like I said it's already been done and ignored by you. I don't see you doing the decent thing of presenting evidence to back up your claims at all.
     
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  4. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    GUYS...this is the NON-Chinese Strategy Thread.

    I am too tired and it is too late to do so tonight, but tomorrow I am going through and deleting a whole boatlload of posts about what China should, should not, can, and cannot do.

    In addition, these arguments are getting repetitive/cicular and personal.

    COOL OFF.

    To that end...THREAD TEMPRARILY CLOSED.

    When it reopens, STAY ON TOPIC, and STOP THE ENDLESS BACK AND FORTH.

    DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.


    WalkingTall3.jpg
     
    #1094 Jeff Head, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
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  5. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    Guys, there has now been a two week cooling off, readjustment period.

    I will no reopen this thread. It has been closed several times due to Politics (which are against SD rules), chest thumping, nationalistic arguments, Off Topic discussions about Chinese Strategies, etc.

    I am now reopening it...but seriously, if this trend continues, I will close this thread permanently.

    I am asking SD posters to contain their politics and emotion and discuss issues rationally and on topic.

    THREAD OPEN
     
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  6. Brumby
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    China Has Deployed Missiles to Disputed Island Before, US Admiral Says
    http://m.military.com/daily-news/20...-disputed-island-before-us-admiral-says.html?
    IMO, the militarization at Woody's is just an initial phase that will continue to run its course. It must be obvious to the US that political attempts at persuasion is not having any effect. It is also obvious that Asean in its present form do not have the consensus to have a unified view that is meaningful. In the near term lack of any forceful pushback from the US is a clear signal to the Chinese to continue with their militarization effort. Failure to meaningfully push back now will be a clear sign of weakness in US resolve. IMO, the most tangible card to play is to aggressively push for THAAD deployment in South Korea as a quid pro quo, a move which would infuriate the Chinese.

    Longer term there is only one course that is available to the US and that is to maintain the narrative of rule of law and conformity to UNCLOS provisions. China in using an ambiguity strategy has inherent strength and weakness to it. Unfortunately the US so far has only played to its strength and not address its weakness. A change in policy will not come about with the present administration because it will require resolve. So far the Chinese actions has not come at a cost to it and in the absence of any tangible pushback, it would be foolishness not to exploit the US lack of decisiveness in this issue. A major weakness in the Chinese ambiguity strategy is that because there isn't any tangible legal premise to its claim, the US can simply ignore its claims in its entirety. In my view, the US should sail and fly and challenge every single one of those claims until the Chinese either put up or shut up. This is clearly escalatory but I think the window for
    niceties have long past.
     
  7. Jura
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    Jura General

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    according to DefenseNews
    China's HQ-9 Missile Placement Underlines Pentagon Focus on A2/AD
    source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...ile-island-us-pentagon-a2ad-weapons/80572464/
     
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  8. Geographer
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    Does anyone have recent photos of Vietnam's reclamation projects on their controlled islands?
     
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  9. Brumby
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    This statement underscores the issue. China's strategic goal is to create depth through the SCS islands and thereby an effective denial to military access and movement within those global commons. In this end, China has made it clear it wants to set the terms of access. We have already seen the framework in which it intends to achieve this; (I) nebulous claims through the nine dash; and (ii) redefining the meaning EEZ as territorial waters. As such FONOP is the antithesis of the latter point to this strategy and why China gets infuriated when the US conducts it. It undermines their basic strategy in achieving denial of access. The dynamic nature of this strategy is to secure denial in two ways. If the US doesn't challenge FON, then China doesn't have to do anything. If the US challenges it through FON, it then incrementally militarise the islands as an excuse and thereby achieves denial in substance. Either way, China gets what it wants.

    However the key to China's strategy is in the ambiguity of its claim and there lies its weakness. It sets imaginary lines around those nebulous claims and so far the US has taken the bait by playing to this tune. In my view, this issue needs to be taken head on. Since China has set imaginary claims then the US should reciprocate by ignoring those claims since they are imaginary and increase the FON's in the SCS to undermine China's strategy of denial. This will require resolve which unfortunately will not come from this present administration. There will be increasing risk for China as it further militarise the region as those sitting on the fence will eventually have to take a stand.
     
  10. PanAsian
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    PanAsian Major

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    A question is whether these patrols would go within 12 nautical miles of islands controlled by each claimant, or only single out islands controlled by China? The former would be a pure FONOP play while the latter would be both FONOP and effectively taking sides in the sovereignty disputes as all claimants have excessive claims according to US interpretation of military vessel FON.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-australia-idUSKCN0VV0FN

     
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