Should China respect sanctions on Iran?

Red Moon

Junior Member
Iran is a religious revolutionary government that funds organizations with weaponry and training that espouse their own religious leanings. Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command to name just a few.

Hezbollah indeed unites the shia community in Lebanon, but the Lebanese brand of this religion is not quite the same as the Iranian one. Meanwhile, three other organizations mentioned here are NOT shiite at all, but sunni based organizations. As to the PFLP, it is secular, or rather, atheist. Whether Iran provides weapons to any of these, I actually don't know. I don't believe I've seen proof. On the other hand, what stands out from the list you supply is that the Iranian leadership is quite PRAGMATIC: it supports forces based on their POLITICAL STAND, and not on "religious leanings".

The question ought to be then: what is the political stand which Iran supports? The first thing to note is that the list of forces mentioned in this quote is not exhaustive. Iran seems to have no problem with China, for example. I don't recall any public spats with Russia either. And Iran seems to have had good relations with its neighbors Iraq and Afghanistan, through most of the last few years, in spite of the fact that both of them are under American occupation. The relationship with Armenia seems to have been cooperative since it became independent.

More interesting, perhaps, is its growing friendship with Turkey. Turkey's denunciation of Israel during its war in Gaza in early 2009 was widely commented on. For many people it seems to have marked a turning point in that country's evolution. In fact, it seems to mark a new resolve to stand up to the West, at least symbolically. One Iranian leader (I don't remember which) remarked at the time that THIS was what was meant back in '79 or the early '80s when Iran said it wanted to "export" the Iranian revolution. They did not want to replicate subversion and revolution; they wanted states in the region to stand up to the West, and particularly the US and the UK.

This example is interesting because it isolates just what Iran is seeking in its foreign policy. Iran wants to end Western, and particularly American, domination of the Middle East. For the reasons, you have to look at history. I don't want to do this here, but I will say that on this question the views of the Iranian regime are much more representative of the views in the street in the Middle East, both Persian and Arabic, than are the states and forces which are "friendly" to the West. Polls conducted late in 2006 in several countries found that Ahmadinejad and Nasrallah (the leader of Hezbollah) were by far the most popular political figures in several of the Sunni Arab countries at that time.

@jantxv: On the specific forces mentioned in your list, it should be noted that all of them are political actors within Palestine/Israel and Lebanon. All of them have also been labelled "terrorist" as well, and I think the gist of your examples is to cast Iran in a certain light. But it is also true that both of these places have been in a constant state of insecurity and on/off civil war for many decades. These problems are MUCH OLDER than the Iranian revolution. The last American intervention in Lebanon predates Iranian influence there, any all of Israel's wars involving Arab states predate the Iranian revolution. In this case, the Iranian regime is simply taking a stand on problems that were there LONG BEFORE they were. They certainly did not CREATE the problems. And in this stand of theirs, they are the ONLY major state in the Middle East that actually actually speaks for the majority. In other words, YOU may see them as "terrorist" organizations, but for most people in the Middle East, they are heroes. The Iranian regime sympathises with these organizations because, in the context of these nearly constant civil wars in these places in the last several decades, these are the forces which, in their view, take the most consistently uncompromising positions against outside encroachment.
 

xywdx

Junior Member
Remember the quiet cheers of approval with Israels attack on Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor in 1981?

Im only advocating a surgical strike at the nuclear sites we have definitely identified. That is the 17 dispersed sites as well as Nantanz and the nuclear reactor at Bushehr, followed by crippling sanctions. What military action happens after that, depends entirely on Iran.

So if Iran is not allowed to produce radioactive material for medical use, then how will they perform medical analysis?

Who will give them 20% enriched uranium at prices comparable to local production cost?
The USA?

Or is it your opinion that non-westerners should just suffer from health issues?
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I was not aware that Melbourne was NZ:confused:


Queenstown is though. Ive spent quite a few yrs in Aus.and still maintain a home there andow that Ive retired I still travel frequently back in forth to see family etc.:)

@xywdx

So if Iran is not allowed to produce radioactive material for medical use, then how will they perform medical analysis?

Who will give them 20% enriched uranium at prices comparable to local production cost?
The USA?

Or is it your opinion that non-westerners should just suffer from health issues?

No one is denying them the ability of producing radio active material for peaceful purposes.Its Irans Pursuit of producing weapons grade uranium thats the issue. In fact on countless times the West have offered help in setting up and maintaining a civilian nucleur program, which Iran has declined.
I have no idea what the cost of enriched uranium costs, but for Oil rich Iran its a matter of priorities, and they can more than afford the miniscule amount needed to purchase enriched uranium at world prices, by merely stopping the funding of terrorist groups.
 
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jantxv

New Member
I'm actually more concerned about long term Chinese security rather than debating the issues if it is "fair" or not on how Iran is treated. The West developed a dependency with the Middle East in much the same way that some factions in China are doing. The Western dependency resulted in military obligations and the consequences that go with that.

Some Chinese argue against carrying the target of extremist vengeance. As Somali pirates didn't say, "Oh, this ship is the good Chinese and not the evil West, let's not take it.". Many in the Chinese government are arguing the same logic with those members with financial interests in Iran. The argument is, "Just because we are not Western doesn't mean we are not foreigners, why should we expect different treatment?". Why should China assume the burdens of the West in the Middle East?
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
I'm actually more concerned about long term Chinese security rather than debating the issues if it is "fair" or not on how Iran is treated. The West developed a dependency with the Middle East in much the same way that some factions in China are doing. The Western dependency resulted in military obligations and the consequences that go with that.

Some Chinese argue against carrying the target of extremist vengeance. As Somali pirates didn't say, "Oh, this ship is the good Chinese and not the evil West, let's not take it.". Many in the Chinese government are arguing the same logic with those members with financial interests in Iran. The argument is, "Just because we are not Western doesn't mean we are not foreigners, why should we expect different treatment?". Why should China assume the burdens of the West in the Middle East?

you cant view iran as simply extremists. i have not seen one "extreme" regime acting in a irresponsible manner when in possession of nukes, be it the USSR, Chinese, Israel or Pakistani.

i am not sure where you are getting those info about the internal debate on China's iran policy, but my personal guess would be that the politburo should be slightly in favour of rejecting US demands. the same reason as no one in US congress dares to speak softly of the taliban
 

solarz

Brigadier
What's in it for China to support the sanctions against Iran? Other than the nebulous good will of the West and vague, unsubstantiated, slippery slope suppositions of Iranian threat against Chinese security.

NOT supporting the sanctions, on the other hand, is sure to give China the good will of the Iranian regime and that yields far more substantial rewards than the very temporary good will of the West.
 

jantxv

New Member
April 13, 2010
AP

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's nuclear summit has paid early dividends: China's agreement to work with the U.S. on possible sanctions against Iran and Ukraine's decision to rid itself of nuclear bomb-making materials.Obama's meeting with Chinese President Hu Jintao was the last of the summit warm-up sessions before the U.S. leader sat down with his guests at a working dinner.

After the Hu meeting, White House national security aide Jeff Bader said Iran was a major topic of discussion at the 90-minute session.

"They're prepared to work with us," Bader said, interpreting that willingness as "another sign of international unity on this issue."

Obama has been pressing the case that a fourth round of sanctions are needed to persuade Iran to alter its perceived course toward a nuclear weapons capability.

China, while historically averse to tough sanctions and uneasy about potential damage to its trade relationship with Tehran, may indeed be coming on board with Obama. He already has the robust backing of Great Britain, France and Germany. Russia, too, has shown a willingness to join the sanctions effort, which would give Obama the required clean sweep of permanent members of the United Nations Security Council.

But when pressed on whether China had committed to anything specific on the sanctions front, Bader was less direct.

"We are going to be -- we've started to work that and we're going to be working on that in the coming days -- coming days and weeks," he said. Obama wants agreement on sanctions before summer.

From the context of this story, it would seem the Chinese leadership is still hammering out guarantees from the West before any meaningful sanctions agreement.

As "democracies" endanger their people, by business entities ignoring national security for private gains, the Chinese Politburo acts in the best interests of the entire nation. As soon as China has full contracts the make up for lost oil & other business loss that may come from sanctions on Iran, Chinese business interests & security will be satisfied. When the sanctions are over, business leaders may be allowed to pursue Chinese interests in Iran again.

I'm sure the Iranians will understand that China has already gone above and beyond what any other nation would have done for them. But Iran must also see China's position and not expect the Chinese to do all the heavy-lifting. The Chinese people know about sacrificing in the short term for long term payoffs.

When the sanctions are over, I am confident that the Iranians will have no better friend than the Chinese. It is China that has the clout, means, will, and finances to invest in the Iranian peoples' prosperity.
 
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tres

New Member
Don't know if you guys play Weiqi. For China, Iran, is a good piece of "Jie-cai", something on the fence, could be vital, or could be traded for better long term strategic pieces. So far the west hasn't offered anything worth the trade, that's why we see the waiting game.
 

tres

New Member
People of Chinese origin would like to think such, but have been disappointed time again in international politics. On personal level from limited personal experience, Jewish people are much more trustworthy than Iranians. However I don't see why Israelis can have the bomb but Iranians can't?


I'm sure the Iranians will understand that China has already gone above and beyond what any other nation would have done for them. But Iran must also see China's position and not expect the Chinese to do all the heavy-lifting. The Chinese people know about sacrificing in the short term for long term payoffs.

When the sanctions are over, I am confident that the Iranians will have no better friend than the Chinese. It is China that has the clout, means, will, and finances to invest in the Iranian peoples' prosperity.
 

solarz

Brigadier
People of Chinese origin would like to think such, but have been disappointed time again in international politics. On personal level from limited personal experience, Jewish people are much more trustworthy than Iranians.

You're absolutely right. Israel is the only state I can think of that is grateful to the Chinese, and that only for providing a refuge for jews fleeing the holocaust. Certainly, none of the other states that China has helped in the past has demonstrated any kind of gratitude: North Korea and Vietnam, for example.
 
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