Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)
- Thread starter A Bar Brother
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Of course you'll provide links to this exciting information, won't you?
Or this time you again meant something entirely different, we just need to read 50 pages to see?
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hahaha nice one. Next time try google.
Soviets were not an industrial power at all. Most of their admittedly great achievements were really made possible at the huge expense of destroying the fabric of the rest of their society and consumer industries. Their planned moon rockets used dozens of engines to achieve the necessary thrust and many projects were done through brute force and trial and error. This was brought up as an example to counter the false idea that Russia and Soviet industry was capable. Relating it to Su-57 and others, it's no surprise they can't build high tech stuff anymore. Most of the available technology is based on soviet era technology (which don't get me wrong is still very advanced and many things China still wants to get its hands on). This isn't a insult to Russians. Some of the greatest minds advancing the west in high tech industries are Slavic people born and educated in Russia. All i'm saying is let's not go insane with Su-57 praise. It really aint much.
J-31 is also extremely rough. Even the second prototype. You can see from some available close ups that the frame is like flanker and Su-57, uneven and the naked eye can already detect poor worksmanship in excessive contours. Easily seen under right light. J-10a was same even J-10b was only okay. You can see improvements to later CAC products though and J-20 is F-22 level of skin detail. Not sure about how well that holds up with all the stresses. It's close to F-35 level. This may be relatively superficial for 70% of the time but for VLO, it's quite important and does reflect on the manufacturer's ability at least on how they build and assemble the parts. Already a clear difference below not to even mention the protruding tubes. Left of course is Su-57 and right is F-35.
Above is late model flanker and shows what I mean. This is 4th gen yes but other 4th gens are still much neater. It's not super important for 4th gen but shows what some manufacturers are not capable of. Some parts are naturally recycled and reused to save time and money. Struggling car manufacturers did/do that too.
Below is J-31. If you look closely, it has the same problem. SAC is not that great.
Soviets were not an industrial power at all. Most of their admittedly great achievements were really made possible at the huge expense of destroying the fabric of the rest of their society and consumer industries. Their planned moon rockets used dozens of engines to achieve the necessary thrust and many projects were done through brute force and trial and error. This was brought up as an example to counter the false idea that Russia and Soviet industry was capable. Relating it to Su-57 and others, it's no surprise they can't build high tech stuff anymore. Most of the available technology is based on soviet era technology (which don't get me wrong is still very advanced and many things China still wants to get its hands on). This isn't a insult to Russians. Some of the greatest minds advancing the west in high tech industries are Slavic people born and educated in Russia. All i'm saying is let's not go insane with Su-57 praise. It really aint much.
J-31 is also extremely rough. Even the second prototype. You can see from some available close ups that the frame is like flanker and Su-57, uneven and the naked eye can already detect poor worksmanship in excessive contours. Easily seen under right light. J-10a was same even J-10b was only okay. You can see improvements to later CAC products though and J-20 is F-22 level of skin detail. Not sure about how well that holds up with all the stresses. It's close to F-35 level. This may be relatively superficial for 70% of the time but for VLO, it's quite important and does reflect on the manufacturer's ability at least on how they build and assemble the parts. Already a clear difference below not to even mention the protruding tubes. Left of course is Su-57 and right is F-35.
Above is late model flanker and shows what I mean. This is 4th gen yes but other 4th gens are still much neater. It's not super important for 4th gen but shows what some manufacturers are not capable of. Some parts are naturally recycled and reused to save time and money. Struggling car manufacturers did/do that too.
Below is J-31. If you look closely, it has the same problem. SAC is not that great.
b787
Captain
if you paint something black looks very clean but if its light blue or gray see
Surely F-22 has also poor workmanship
b787
Captain
is not F-22 more stealthy than F-35?
All of that is classified. But it may be true and the reason for that could be because F-35 has more protrusions and electronics or sensors sticking out in weird places whereas F-22 is fairly clean. This is a possible reason for smaller RCS of F-22 assuming it does indeed have a smaller RCS. Surface detailing must have a point of diminishing returns when factoring in costs to achieve those levels and opportunity costs in improving other parameters like sensor abilities. But as a general rule, of course surface detail matters a lot to VLO otherwise no one would care but the fact is they all do. Relating this back to su-57 in case anyone's going to misunderstand, this fighter shows less than ideal surface refinement which is also the case for J-31. Not sure if they'll be improved in future or if they can be improved. Su-57 seems like it's finished and just waiting for better engines in future batches.
b787
Captain
uhmm i thought the skin did not matter yeah so F-22 has poor workmanship but still manages to get better frontal stealth yes my friend black pain hides details like an ugly woman that puts a lot of make up
There were some pictures floating around that F-22's skin is rough with dimples everywhere "orange skin". It's up to the direction of the light and types of light that will show or hide local details. The color of the skin also helps, gray will naturally fool your eyes. Part of the values of F-22 and F-35 is deterrence, so setting up perception worth a lot. Apparently Russians and Shenyang did not pay much attention to that.