Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Broccoli
Senior Member
They don't have docks what could handle carrier building because those big ships were build in Ukraine, and recent submarine accident shows what happens when Russians use their recently developed home made stuff like batteries.
Russians could always chose their own design and then pay Chinese docks to build it.
Ten Years Later, Russia Finally Begins Production of the Su-57 Stealth Fighter
Moscow’s first fifth-generation fighter is mysteriously cheaper but might be too little, too late.
By
Jul 31, 2019
MIKHAIL TERESHCHENKOGETTY IMAGES
Russia’s first fifth generation fighter, the Sukhoi Su-57, has entered serial production. Under the terms of a contract signed last June United Aircraft Corporation will produce 76 Su-57s, with the first jet likely to enter service before the end of 2019.
First sighted in 2010, the Su-57 takes its name from the famous Sukhoi Design Bureau. The Su-57 was a previously unknown design and its appearance took the West by surprise. The Su-57 is described as a “fifth-generation fighter,” a term referring to to the fifth-generation of post World War II fighter jets. Fifth-generation fighter jets typically include a stealthy design, the ability to cruise at speeds of Mach 1 or greater, and a powerful radar and the ability to send and receive data with friendly forces in a networked environment.
The Su-57 is technically a multi-role fighter, with the ability to operate in both air-to-air and air-to-ground roles. The fighter will also be a launch platform for the Kinzhal (“Dagger”) hypersonic missile. Experts believe Kinzhal is a 9K720 Iskander land-based short-range ballistic missile modified to be carried underneath an aircraft. Kinzhal has a and and a range of 1,242 miles.
But the world's initial surprise of the Su-57's existence has been tempered by extensive delays. The aircraft, previously known as T-50, first flew on January 29, 2010. In 2012, the head of the Russian Air Force production of the aircraft would begin in 2015. That never happened. India, an early partner in the program, dropped out after repeated delays, , and a refusal by Russia to share software source codes.
The Kinzhal hypersonic weapon, as carried by a MiG31K fighter. The Su-57 will be a launch platform for the Mach 10 hypersonic weapon.
ANADOLU AGENCYGETTY IMAGES
, a Russian government-owned state media source, Moscow signed a contract for 76 Su-57s last June. At the time, Russia had only committed to buying 16 of the fighters. United Aircraft Corporation, the parent company of the Sukhoi bureau, somehow made the jet twenty percent cheaper, prompting the larger buy.
The big question is how the Su-57 magically got cheaper. Currently there are nine Su-57 prototypes flying, all powered by the AL-41FM1 engine. The AL-41FM1 generates 32,000 pounds of thrust, and the big Su-57 is equipped with two of them. However, the Su-57 is supposed to be equipped with the more powerful Item 30 engines and reportedly cannot cruise at Mach 1 or faster without them. The Item 30s have proven difficult to develop but the Su-57 finally . Does the cheaper price reflect the use of the older, less powerful engines? If not, did UAC cut corners on some other aspect of the aircraft's design?
Regardless of how capable Russia’s Su-57 is, it will be severely outnumbered by fifth-generation fighters fielded by the country’s potential adversaries. F-35 production is nearing a hundred fighters a year, with the U.S. military ordering 2,400 jets, and even countries such as the U.K. and Japan are buying more than a hundred each.
By 2028, when Moscow’s existing orders for Su-57s will be filled, the U.S. and its allies will field 187 F-22 Raptors and somewhere around 1,400 F-35s.
Price stated here is about 35 million.
So, when are the Chinese ordering Su-57 to do the low for their fifth generation fleet? When the ideliyze 30 come in? Likely the Su-57s completely jettisoned all RAM to achieve this figure, but it's a fairly good 4.5-5th gen aircraft that can cover China's bases while the J-31/35 is in development.
Another big bonus is that the Su-57 is already slated to get laser point defense versus missiles. That'll be something the PLAAF will love to get their hands on, given that the J-20 theoretically can mount similar systems onto the J-20's side weapons bays with some modifications. Given the bay size, the J-20 can mount a more powerful laser unit than the Russians and maybe later the Americans.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
They report what they are told. This price point assumes that that is the end sale number not a highly optimistic projection
likely not. China 2025 remember. Buying brand new SU57 would disqualify the Aero space sector from the 70% goal
check the price point of the latest Mig35. @$50 million a pop getting $35million for a brand new state of the art machine sounds more like inventive accounting.
They are talking about a DIRCM Directed Infared Countermeasures . That’s not a point defense laser it’s a laser countermeasure. It projects a laser beam into the guidance seeker of an IR guided missile to try and blind it. As such optimally you want the ability to cover the fighter’s whole aspect with it.
Northrop Grumman was working on a system that would fit in the DAS/MWS windows along side the DAS cameras.
The Russians don’t have something that small they installed big globes on the SU57 with turrets.
J20 is a Mystery on this the Chinese have at least a all aspect IR Missile warning system.
As to an airborne laser system? For the moment only in Star Trek. They are getting smaller but they have issues of power and heat that limit them at least another 5 years before we see something small enough.
D
Deleted member 13312
Guest
No...... just no......... Unless they are selling an empty shell of a plane, there is no way, no way on earth, that a Su-57 is going to cost a mere 35 million USD per copy, we are already seeing J-10Cs reaching that price tag and that is a single engine fighter for crying out loud. And if it is going to remove all RAM to achieve that figure (literally stripping away one of the key aspect of what the Su-57 is supposed to be), then why in the name of all that is logical would China buy what is basically a J-11D with internal munition storage points ?
And the so called laser point defense system is as the poster above me had pointed out, still vapourware at this point. It might be a laser dazzler system like the Shtora, but China already has the equivalent of that in production.
All in all, an article of the level of quality that one might expect coming out from Military Watch Magazine.
It is a bit overblown, the Su-34 has RAM coating as well, so that can not be price driver.
The tighter tolerance limits can be price driver however .
D
Deleted member 13312
Guest
That, and the newer avionics and radar figures into the costs as well. But never the less, it is just another example of the MIlitaryWatchMagazine pulling an article outta thin air.
Jura The idiot
General
regarding so called recent info about the Su-57 price,
Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA) Jul 4, 2019
:
Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA) Jul 4, 2019
:
Stealth is purportedly three parts shaping, one part material. The situation has definitely changed, but dumping RAM on an LO aircraft like the Su-57 isn't going to do that much to its RCS.
As for the rest, there's two separate sources claiming this. I poked the Popular Science figure first, but it's possible the Su-57 is sold at an operating loss (i.e, it doesn't cover the degredation cost of the manufacturing equipment) just to make sure the Su-57 actually gets into production. As seen with other posts on this thread, the Russian military industrial complex is a shambles and it'd be important for the Su-57 to achieve exports to keep the industry alive.
Assuming that the PLAAF will eventually fly 600 J-20s (aiming for 2:1 K-D vs the F-35), there's evidently a place for 200 Su-57 to specialize in strike and attritional dogfights. Chinese engine technology is relatively behind (if the American next-gen missiles are so potent, they represent as well American advancements in missile engine technology), but Russian engine technology is less so. This implies that the Chinese will want access to Russian missiles while their own engines and munitions design catch up; the R-37M, for instance, has about the same capability as a PL-21 / PL-XX interceptor missile, but in a shorter package that might be able to fit in an internal weapons bay.
One part of the problem is a common misunderstanding founded on inaccurate reporting by most of the Western defence press. All these carrier concepts are NOT official Russian MoD projects, they are industry initiatives attempting to gain funding from the military. To what extent they were even solicited by the navy is unclear at best. Here's a more matter-of-fact example that provides a realistic perspective of the situation:
So industry is fishing for business (as they are supposed to), and military/government are evaluating their actual needs (as they are supposed to) - it's not a megalomaniac plot that keeps failing but a fairly sober process. Note also how the Nevskoye rep makes no bones about the Ulyanovsk design heritage (many articles spin this though it was some dirty little secret that they've exposed), in fact he clearly touts it as a deliberate cost-saving measure that lowers the required amount of new development work.
One can legitimately deride these efforts as pipe dreams given the state of Russia's economy and the lack of a pressing military requirement for carriers, but they'd be *industry* pipe dreams, not *government* pipe dreams. Certain officials which are possibly in the industry's pocket not withstanding.
Last edited: