Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by tphuang, Mar 24, 2006.

  1. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Well this makes things more interesting.
    Once upon a time in the 60s the Russians introducedthe BMP1 with a low velocity 73mm gun.
    Then they introduced the improved BMP2 with a 30x163mm gun
    Then they introduced the BMP3 with all the guns a 30mm and a low velocity 100mm smooth bore. They sold that to China.
    Now they have elected for standardizing on the 57mm high velocity gun.
    https://www.armyrecognition.com/wea...d_ifv_armored_to_be_armed_with_57mm_guns.html
    Now the PLA at there trade shows has shown off a 40mm cased Teliscoped gun.
    The French and British partnered and have there own 40mm CT gun system. Now being fitted to there next gen vehicles.
    The German' s puma packs a 30mm gun but the Rhinmetal Lynx has a 35x228mm gun that I will come back to.
    The Japanese went to a 35mm for there IFV
    The South Koreans are big believers in go big or go home and use a 40x364mm Bofors of indigenous type the Swedish use the original L70 Bofors for their CV90 (for the record AC130 uses L60 guns which are different)
    Most of the rest of the world chose to go with 25mm like the Bradley or 30mm like the Stryker.
    Recently at the U.S. Army AUSA the Army voiced concerns about the range and overmarch of the Russian and Chinese mixed 30mm and 100 50mm guns and to counter it they started looking at a necked out 35mm cannon round called 50mm Supershot. This any 35mm gun (like the Lynx mounted one) could be built to fire. Now the Russians push to preemptively up gun to 57x347mmSR.
    Of course questions still remain like can they afford to rebuild there existing armored fleet to these new guns? The ammo types are plentiful but the turrets are new and all the conversions would need a new turret.
     
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  2. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Senior Member
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    "57mm guns are known as reliable antiaircraft weapons. The Soviet Union produced ZSU-57-2 self-propelled guns which were used in the war in Vietnam, Arab-Israeli and Iran-Iraq wars. ZSU had to destroy jets, but the absence of an automated radar decreased the effectiveness. "
    You know I just love how these articles likes to muddle the facts. It was the ZSU-23-4 that was the bane of jet fighters. The ZSU-57-2 was quickly decommissioned shortly afterwards.
    I did expect the new PVO to serve just as short a service life in the AA role. With only an electro optical guidance system, it will be extremely hard for it to target attack helicopters that uses long range ATGM. Plus with the limited amount of ammunition it can carry it is gonna run dry pretty quick.
    And why is Russia so concerned with one upping the competition in this regard. A uprated 30 or 35mm can easily deal with most APCs and IFVs out there, and when dealing with extremely heavy IFVs like the Puma you are better off firing a ATGM right at it in the first place.
     
  3. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Attack Choppers are not the only threat these days small drones are a big one. Especially since they can carry anti armor weapons. The antiaircraft role in this case is more of a secondary. Most IFV Auto cannons are capable of Antiaircraft gunning to a degree. Even tank guns with the right ammo will swat a Attack Chopper down.
    Range is a big factor the 57mm gun can put range some ATGM systems. With the exception of the Latest T15 Armata IFVs the vast majority of the front line Russian IFV are light weight with relivtivly thin armor. The Russians use ERA and occasional APS systems to make up for there thin protection. However Russian APS and ERA are fixed point systems. This makes them susseptable to repeat attack and as yet most APS are lack luster against auto cannons.
    In recent years the U.S. and European makers have shown an interest in giving light and nimble unarmored and light armored vehicles increased power with auto cannons like the M230LF. In other words a Humvee can now pack fire power equal to a IFV.
    The Russians want to nip that in the bud. A weapon like a 57mm air burst round would chew up a Humvee with a near hit.
    That caliber would also be devastating in a HE shell against urban cover. Demolishing walls and structures with single hits.
    Right now we are seeing changes in the IFV/APC market.
    Light armor is changing as vehicles previously unarmored like utility 4x4s are now moving up Well previously standard vehicles are being rebuilt to medium weight.
    Medium weight is becoming the new normal for all but Airborne or third world parties. The latest version of traditional IFV and APCs like the Bradley are being unarmored to 30mm protection standard.
    Because the vast majority of modern IFV pack 30mm guns most of these same vehicles have protection against that threat on there frontal arc.
    Hence why bother with a 30mm?
    More and more nations are even looking beyond that.
    The Heavy IFV class is still emerging but if you think 57mm in a IFV will have a small magazine ATGMs are tiny capacity maybe 2 ready to go shots then needing a reload.
    But then there is systems like Trophy and the emerging Hard Kill APS systems that are designed to defeat ATGMs ARMS and are becoming standard for heavy IFVs liken the Namer.
    That means that you fire a ATGM and before impact watch as the missile is swatted from the sky and then that vehicle turns it's attentions to you.
    A heavier gun system will have a higher velocity than existing APS can deal with.
    Against this a heavier gun caliber and round would push the range out and mean better penetration. A 30mm Soviet 30mm has an effective range of 2km the American Mk44 Bushmaster II is 3km 35mm, 40mm and 57mm is all about 4km. The 100mm gun on the BMP3 is about that as is. But the 100mm BMP3 gun is not a penitrator it's a grenade thrower. It fires HE rounds at a low velocity.
    As is the BMP3 packs in 500 rounds of 30mm and 40 round of 100mm with 8 more in the form of ATGM. That is less than the normal load of 30mm rounds found in the western peer. The Russians accepted this compromise as did the PLA because that 100mm does nasty things to infantry and will disable a IFV.
    With the 57mm now they would streamline the ammo types. The AU220M turret is apparently unmanned to save space. Supposedly is packs in 200 rounds of 57mm and 2000 rounds of 7.62x54mm coax. The down side? It's penetrating unmanned. The basket is in the hull like a manned turret that means that you have to figure out where to put the gunner and commander in the hull and BMP3 is not very roomy. Heck the infantry has to crawl over the engine to get in and out.

    For comparison the South Korean K21 and CV9040 both pack 40mm guns also derived from antiaircraft cannons. The 40mm L70 Bofors. Cv9040 has a painful loading system but the South Koreans have a far better one. 24 ready rounds that is topped off from a 200 round autoloader for a vehicle load of 224. So when you grade based off another big shell auto Canon armed IFV a BMP3 with a 57mm is not that bad ammo wise. But where it WILL get unfair capacity wide is vs more modern ammo types. The Cased Teliscoped European auto cannon when trailed in prototype form was fitted in a Bradley it had a 105 round ready rack. The ammo has a similar propellent capacity to 40mm Bofors.
    57mm used bybthe russians is a post world war two system. In the end the big trade off for the bigger rounds vs the conventional ammo is decreased margin of error.
    A Bradley has 900 rounds of 25mm ammo with 300 ready to go. Miss the first shot plenty more. The ready rounds of these are smaller so missing the first shot means less potential for follow on. This changes how the gun is used for the crew. 20 &25mm are often used almost like machine guns. The ZSU 23-4 worked as it put up a ton of lead the 57mm demanded more accuracy. As the rate of fire is far less. It would and still did down jets but it was harder then spraying.
     
  4. Jura
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    Jura General

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    and now https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3419968.html
    • reverted to the Butakov and Istomin hulls for India (instead of two new hulls to be built for India), plus
    • raised $1200m (instead of $950 previously) LOL!
     
  5. Gloire_bb
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    Gloire_bb Junior Member
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    That is the point, actually. Army air defence is a weird mix of interlocking passive and active aa systems. It is this way precisely to deny enemy the ability to shut network down completely. New Sosna is exactly the same, optics only. Among army short range air defence vehicles on order(pantsir out), only thor family is activelly emitting radiowaves left and right.
    And while vehicle itself is passive, it is still fully integrated in AA network, i.e. it will still get its targeting data from other sources.
     
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  6. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    Also the aft weapons bay. The full documentary is in two parts in youtube
    rear weapons bay open.jpg
     
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  7. goat89
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    goat89 New Member
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    ^ Hell yeah, RT Doc's Combat Approved! They are releasing one of the Buyan-M corvette on 26th Nov!
     
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  8. ougoah
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    ougoah Senior Member
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    Are there any of those Su-57 youtube RT documentary versions with English subs yet? A lot of good footage and looks like Russians are showing their military hardware off a bit in that RT series. Wouldn't mind watching the Su-57 video with subs like they have for so many of those documentaries.
     
  9. bruceb1959
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    bruceb1959 Junior Member
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    The 'Combat Approved'
    RT's 'Combat Approved' series is definitely worth a watch .. the presenter's comments and questions are often quite trite .. but the close up look at the hardware is worthwhile
     
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  10. anzha
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    anzha Junior Member
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    https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2018/11/23/12456/
     
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