Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

plawolf said:

I don’t think the Russians don’t realise that Su57 isn’t meeting all its claims, they just don’t really have any palatable alternatives.

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And by palatable, it means indigenous. The Russian military has a strong invented "here" mentality and wish to export. We know that the SU57 program is in a bit of hot water with the Russian addition that they are as yet not placing it into production beyond a dozen or so existing orders.

Both the F35 and J20 are simply not possible, so short of partnering up with SAC on the J31 (which is boardering on the impossible as well), the Su57 is the only remotely possible option for a 5th gen in Russian service.

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oh sure I agree but the spin on this is that somehow India should be punished for deciding that there investment in the FGFA side of the program was not going to come to flirtation.
India like Russia has a strong drive for indigenous programs and is locked out of F35 for the moment and highly unlikely to partner with the PRC for any fifth gen program due to the amount of water over the bridge.
For India the FGFA was supposed to be a joint venture leading to an Indian buy of SU57.
However the Indians were growing displeased with the progress and lack of technical hand over to them of SU57 despite there investment.
So the Indians rationally chosen to end there investment.
Now the claim is that the Russians are going to sell there second most advanced fighter to Pakistan as a rebuff.
What was India supposed to do foot the bill for a program with nothing to show for It? How does selling Su35 to the PAF help the troubled SU57?

TerraN_EmpirE said:

And by palatable, it means indigenous. The Russian military has a strong invented "here" mentality and wish to export. We know that the SU57 program is in a bit of hot water with the Russian addition that they are as yet not placing it into production beyond a dozen or so existing orders.
oh sure I agree but the spin on this is that somehow India should be punished for deciding that there investment in the FGFA side of the program was not going to come to flirtation.
India like Russia has a strong drive for indigenous programs and is locked out of F35 for the moment and highly unlikely to partner with the PRC for any fifth gen program due to the amount of water over the bridge.
For India the FGFA was supposed to be a joint venture leading to an Indian buy of SU57.
However the Indians were growing displeased with the progress and lack of technical hand over to them of SU57 despite there investment.
So the Indians rationally chosen to end there investment.
Now the claim is that the Russians are going to sell there second most advanced fighter to Pakistan as a rebuff.
What was India supposed to do foot the bill for a program with nothing to show for It? How does selling Su35 to the PAF help the troubled SU57?

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Agreed with pretty much all points, however, the Indians have no one to blame but themselves for their bad investment in the PAKFA.

There was more than a hint of ‘just take my money’ mentality when India first signed up to the PAKFA programme without anything like the kind of due diligence one would have expected. It’s not like this is the first Russian programme that they have been involved in where the Russians have over promised and under delivered.

The Russians threatening to sell Su35s to Pakistan is just them trying to pressure India into recommitting to the Su57, since the programme will be in deep trouble without Indian money to help finance it.

From a selfish prospective, I do hope the Indians re-join the programme, as otherwise the Russians will probably start sniffing around China trying to partner up, and China may just be inclined to help a brother out, mostly to help counter balance the US and NATO by allowing Russian air power to stay relatively relevant in the age of 5th gens.

But if China did that, no doubt all the usual suspects would swarm out of the woodworks to claim that ‘proves’ the J20 is crap.

plawolf said:

The Russians threatening to sell Su35s to Pakistan is just them trying to pressure India into recommitting to the Su57, since the programme will be in deep trouble without Indian money to help finance it.

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that seems the gist but also unlikely unless the Russians actually let India in. As is the Indians seem to be sending messages of a closer Hindu Western Mil to Mil relationship then. Which may also be part of the Su35 Pakistan claim.

plawolf said:

From a selfish prospective, I do hope the Indians re-join the programme, as otherwise the Russians will probably start sniffing around China trying to partner up, and China may just be inclined to help a brother out, mostly to help counter balance the US and NATO by allowing Russian air power to stay relatively relevant in the age of 5th gens.

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Hard to say, being honest although the Russians have made headlines in the last few years it's with a fairly weak hand. The Russian military seems to be broken into three tiers the top tier units with the big news Russian programs like T14, Su57 And the new toys. The second tier with more the lesser but still top Russian gear like the Su35, T90 And older but not trash kit and then the remains of the armed forces with older cold war kit "hash and trash" More than a equal to most of its neighbors but not cutting edge.
Russia also has economic and population decline and density issues working against it far harder then most of Europe.
The PRC leadership does seem willing to bank roll a number of Russian aims and ambitions, but to what degree can they continue to do So? I mean The PRC's own programs and ambitions as well as its own potential problems and the boys in Beijing are not going to be bent to the boys in Moscow's whime no matter how attractive the pitch from the Kremlin.

SU57 as a program is at this point not likely to be any more valuable to the PRC then J20 Or J31. The Russian state is intrinsically linked to the SU57 Just as the PRC is to there J20. As such I doubt the PRC would massively bank roll it and the Russians won't buy J20.

Only possibility might be some tech share in systems like engines and sensors but even that is a stretch.
As I see it J20 is more viable then the Su57, but the Su57 is not a dead duck. The Russian state industry I suspect will keep working on it. Perhaps not as the fighter of 2020 but maybe 2030, upgraded derivatives using cheaper more available technologies. SU57 may not enter production but who is to say Su59 won't.

a major Russian newspaper says

found and tracked for "more than two hours" an Ohio-class in the Med this April:


note all I do is sharing what I've now read

Much like how the Russians disabled a American DDG... yeah.. probably chased a vodka shipment

Came across this today .. an interesting if not unsurprising development

timepass said:

Russian think tank calls for sale of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan in retaliation to India opting out of FGFA . . .

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I think in long term, this aircraft would prove to be conducive for Pakistan Air Force. If the two countries can come to an agreement, whereby a robust set-up of logistical supplies and MRO facilities can established. Then there is a good chance that Pakistan would consider this aircraft as an ideal candidate to replace the F-16s. Where the latter is tied to a very unreliable, unpredictable partner, that is America.

Su-35s are an excellent platform, which has decent capabilities. It is an aircraft that the Russian Air Force have shown complete dependency on. And it has proven it's worth in Syria, providing valuable air support to the Syrian forces.

In so far as the Su-57s are concerned. The decision of Russia not to pursue full scale production of the aircraft, is a smart choice. It doesn't make sense to go in that direction, particularly when American "Zombie Sanctions" are raring their ugly head again. Going full throttle on Su-57s, only pulls Russia into a senseless and absurd arms race. It is a trap and Russia is a doing well to stay clear of it. What other countries choose to do, is their business. The mindless obsession to spend hundreds of billions in money on defense, will come back to bite those in the ass, who chose to go down that path.

Dizasta1 said:

think in long term, this aircraft would prove to be conducive for Pakistan Air Force.

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One look at the issues Malaysia and India has had with maintaining there Russian fighters makes that seem questionable.

Dizasta1 said:

Then there is a good chance that Pakistan would consider this aircraft as an ideal candidate to replace the F-16s

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Not really, F16 is considered a light fighter, it's single engine makes it far more budget friendly. Neither Flanker or Fulcrum have achieved the same popularity of buys or low cost of maintenance.

Dizasta1 said:

Where the latter is tied to a very unreliable, unpredictable partner, that is America

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Actually that's the norm. If you as a nation but weapons from Russia then go and pick a fight with another Russian client state you can expect to be frozen out of support and buys. That's the way the world works. You can say the US is "unpredictable" but that's mostly because the US Pakistani relationship is fluid. Sometimes US Pak relations are good sometimes otherwise.

Dizasta1 said:

which has decent capabilities. It is an aircraft that the Russian Air Force have shown complete dependency on. And it has proven it's worth in Syria, providing valuable air support to the Syrian forces.

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It's done a fair job but then again a turbo prop with bombs would have done just as well in Syria. As there is almost no actual air to air battle. The Su35 has been strike bombing. That's not to say there have not been air to air battles but Flankers have not been part of that.

Dizasta1 said:

In so far as the Su-57s are concerned. The decision of Russia not to pursue full scale production of the aircraft, is a smart choice. It doesn't make sense to go in that direction, particularly when American

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... blah blah... look the sanctions are not so uber effective as to force Russia to drop Pak Fa, Armata and Proton (rocket) What is mostly happened is that the Russian Federation has been dependent on 2 sources of income. Oil and Arms sales.
With changes in the oil market, being dependent on it as the single source of funding is not a viable option.
Factor in expensive military operations in Syria and Ukraine and the Russian Military has to tighten its belt. It means that they were going to have to give up on some ambitions for sometime and SU57 and T14 happened were more than they could afford.

Demonstration of Su-34 Fullback . . .

The Su-34 (also known as Su-27IB) fighter bomber has been developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau Joint Stock Company in Moscow and the Novosibirsk Aircraft Production Association at Novosibirsk, Russia.

The Russian Air Force ordered an initial 32 Su-34 aircraft in 2008, with an additional requirement for 92 aircraft in 2012. The first two production aircraft were delivered to the Russian Air Force in December 2006. The export designation of the Su-34 is Su-32.

Demonstration of Maneuvers by Sukhoi Su-35 . . .