Russian efforts to sell the Su-57/PAK FA to China

few people seem to be clutching at straws here. I don't think Russia has the aerospace generation jump that is needed to produce a fifth gen project (I don't think China has fully achieved that capability either but still better than Russians). I may be very wrong in my justification - the J-20 close up images shows notable refinement of the aircraft over the russian counterpart. Few things like the purported counter-stealth capability, Levcons, the various radars equipped etc give some nice impressions as well as reason for being optimistic. But Fifth gen? It requires money.Russia doesn't have that. Too bad for them. The Russians are trying to export the plane by any means, even if it means throwing some mud at the chinese aerospace industry. Su57 is a failure as long as they fail to raise a proper squadron for themselves. This is a marketing stunt. (i sure hope so).

My opinion is that Russia is pressuring India to return to FGFA by dangling the "China card" option.

For example, Russia is signalling to India that the vital Su-57/PAKFA tech can possibly be in China's hands if they don't return to the FGFA project as soon as possible.

In that case, China is just being used as a political card in Russia-Indian bilateral negotiations, so it's just a marketing tactic to gain leverage and pressure Indians to re-join the FGFA.

Phead128 said:

My opinion is that Russia is pressuring India to return to FGFA by dangling the "China card" option.

For example, Russia is signalling to India that the vital Su-57/PAKFA tech can possibly be in China's hands if they don't return to the FGFA project as soon as possible.

In that case, China is just being used as a political card in Russia-Indian bilateral negotiations, so it's just a marketing tactic to gain leverage and pressure Indians to re-join the FGFA.

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I've pointed that out earlier( maybe not in the same thread BUT certainly regarding the same topic).

Phead128 said:

My opinion is that Russia is pressuring India to return to FGFA by dangling the "China card" option.

For example, Russia is signalling to India that the vital Su-57/PAKFA tech can possibly be in China's hands if they don't return to the FGFA project as soon as possible.

In that case, China is just being used as a political card in Russia-Indian bilateral negotiations, so it's just a marketing tactic to gain leverage and pressure Indians to re-join the FGFA.

Click to expand...

I've pointed that out earlier( maybe not in the same thread BUT certainly w.r.t the same topic). Many people here seem to want China to fail with their J-20. Many doesn't want to see a WS-15. Many are quick to point fingers at the performance of chinese engine development vis-a-vis the Russians and Americans. But personally, I think it is an unfair comparison as Chinese engine development must be viewed as beginning from the time China become industrialized (Or semi-industrialized ). That would be roughly 2000- which means China has accomplished A LOT within 15 or 20 years.
The whole fact that china has the ambition to research into WS-15 kinda engine with the absolutely top notch specs, must be seen as an indication of its confidence.
Regarding the Su-57. I say, china must look into buying the Sukhoi-57 after it has started with the induction of another two J-20 squadron. So cynics wouldn't be quick to jump at conclusions that paint chinese aerspace industry in dull colors. Su-57 would become an asset like the Su-35 (like some remarked in the forum) and would become another special capability platform to worry
about for chinese adversaries.

India probably wouldn't go for it to be honest. I mean if this is all to get India back on fgfa or at least for off the shelf su-57e, they will know that China may buy su-57e to evaluate IAF backbone 5th gen abilities and develop countermeasures. So unless Russia promises not to sell su57 which is impossible thing to ask, India may not end up getting a single unit. Rafale is the thing to get for them and possibly f35 is the US will have them. Amca is a project and we will see how that goes.

ougoah said:

India probably wouldn't go for it to be honest. I mean if this is all to get India back on fgfa or at least for off the shelf su-57e, they will know that China may buy su-57e to evaluate IAF backbone 5th gen abilities and develop countermeasures. So unless Russia promises not to sell su57 which is impossible thing to ask, India may not end up getting a single unit. Rafale is the thing to get for them and possibly f35 is the US will have them. Amca is a project and we will see how that goes.

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F-35 from america ? I don't think India has the financial backbone (or lack of clever defence planning) to introduce and maintain such a costly bird.
Maybe if US gave them at a discount & gave access to the jet like for the israelis.
Maybe if Chinese J-20s actually attacked India or Pakistan ended up being the happy operators of a stealth platform.
Maybe if India suddenly had a fall out with Russia and fell in intense love with america.
But chances of the above happening are near zero.
On a different perspective, India would be hesitant to be part of a Global intelligence/maintenance/system monitoring network that the F-35 is part of. Smaller nations (vassals) or allies may not have a problem with it. But India ? I do have my doubts about that happening. The cost of maintaining the fighter itself would be huge enough relatively to prompt major questions from all sides.

If India buys the S400 as expected, they're not getting the F35.

India is not cleared for F35. There is interest but they sit at the bottom of the listings. You wouldn't see anything till after 2030

Anlsvrthng said:

India too big to be given any powerful US/Chinese weapon, or to enjoy support of them. US can do same tactical move to poison the relationship of India with other countries , but the US is more of an enemy of India than anything else.

Pakistan can receive F-35, without any trouble.


Divide and conquer, if there is a big and small country (or group of people ) then the big players will support the small ,see Ukraine-Russia, India-Pakistan, China-( Taiwan, Japan , SK ) , Turkey - kurds, Syria - kurds Syria - ISIS and so on.

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True that. But India knows that. Pakistan knows that. Kurds know that. Turks know that. Chinese know that. Except for unfortunate-yet-fortunate US lackeys(vassals) , the rest of the free nations with an iota of intelligence know that and are prepping in their own ways to free themselves. China being a great economic power is the worst thing that can happen to US hegemony. Soon India, Vietnam, Indonesia etc would gain economic power and that would mean less power for the anglosphere and the Nato.

No big offense to pakistan BUT they have absolutely pathetic aeronautical industry/ knowledge & skill base necessary to operate the fighter.

Anlsvrthng said:

India too big to be given any powerful US/Chinese weapon, or to enjoy support of them. US can do same tactical move to poison the relationship of India with other countries , but the US is more of an enemy of India than anything else.

Pakistan can receive F-35, without any trouble.


Divide and conquer, if there is a big and small country (or group of people ) then the big players will support the small ,see Ukraine-Russia, India-Pakistan, China-( Taiwan, Japan , SK ) , Turkey - kurds, Syria - kurds Syria - ISIS and so on.

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Nonsense!