Russia sells S-400 systems to China

Oh, I see...now I am mongering up fear of China when people are suggesting that China use an air defense system to blatantly threaten the air space of other countries?

Thank goodness the Chinese leadership is more wise.

On this I agree with you, my earlier comment wasn't directed at you but at multiple other posts and links assuming the S-400 is an offensive weapon. That's why I put the China threat bias comment before quoting you and comments responding to you after the quote, but I should have made a separate post.

To be completely clear I think it definitely would be antagonistic for China to deploy the S-400 right along its borders or on outlying islands during peacetime. In the case of outlying islands it would also be ineffective during wartime as the SAM systems would be sitting ducks without enough room to move around and hide when need be.
 
Any country's SAM system could possibly cover the airspace of a neighboring country. That is the nature of ranged weapons, they would be impotent without sufficient range, the longer range the better.

People advocating threatening others during peacetime by placing SAM's on the edge of a country's borders are definitely being antagonistic.

At the same time people assuming an offensive posture just because of the capability are also being antagonistic. According to that logic a country like Singapore must have offensive plans if they have SAM's, not to mention any other weapons like AShM's, SSM's, or artillery, with a range beyond their country/city limits.

Posture and perception are considerations however a country is well within its rights to base whatever weapons it wants anywhere within its territory.
 

no_name

Colonel
I just can't shake the SCS bug on this issue.
I would love to see a map showing major Chinese Island building, with each Island overlain by the S-400 detection and targeting radius and see how well it delineates the Nine Dash line claim.

I really do think that this is a possession is 9/10ths situation and that the PRC is determined to change the facts on the ground in support of its claim. I also do think that a CSCADIZ is on the cards and that this one will be a rather more forceful affair than its ECS predecessor, due entirely to the matter of possession.
I really do see the S-400 system as a pivotal piece of the jigsaw to achieve and enforce this.

I did a rough and dirty one for fiery cross reef.

28rcm5i.jpg

If would be easier to overlay on all the islands if google map allowed multiple markers and distance measurement. Maybe if you want a serious attempt to get an actual large printed map with the actual nine dash line on it. One with a proper projection though I don't think there will be a lot of distortion near the equator.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
And, quite frankly, and the focus of these comments, an act by the PRC to place active S-400 batteries on the Chinese coast to be able to control the air space over, say, Taipei would be one of the surest ways for the PRC to ruin the good progress that is being made towards that eventual goal.

Your point is a bit unclear. SAM systems do not control air space . You could use radars from SAM system to monitor air space (in this case with acquisition radars like 96L6E , 91N6E etc .. ) and you could use missiles to shoot at targets in range . Unlike fighters , you could not fly to a target , inspect it , order it to land or leave . Theoretically , air control could order aircraft to turn back or be shoot at with SAMs, but this is not done this way .

China already has radars monitoring Taiwanese airspace , and this is not a secret . They could employ S-400 radars for this if they want , but I doubt they would do this constantly and accumulate running hours of the system . From Taiwanese point of view, they are used to be being "painted" by Chinese systems . One exception would be irradiation by fire-control (engagement ) radar , readying itself to launch SARH missile, but I doubt Chinese would do such a thing unless they really want to start shooting war .

Strategic implication for Taiwan is not where would China place its S-400 batteries in peacetime . Strategic and worrying implication for Taiwan is newly acquired ability of China to place those batteries across Taiwan in relatively short time if situation deteriorate . S-400 spoils in large degree Taiwanese Western doctrine of relaying heavily on air power, air resupply, air surveillance etc ... Therefore, they are slowly being funneled towards rejecting option of trying to unilaterally declare independence and then resisting with arms . As Chinese military might grows, more and more Taiwan would be put in position where they need to negotiate with mainland .
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Also, S-400 batteries are not offensive and strategic weapons like the DF11,15 & 16 that are pointed at Taiwan. It would be illogical of Taiwan to throw a fit over such defensive missiles.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
I did a rough and dirty one for fiery cross reef.

28rcm5i.jpg

If would be easier to overlay on all the islands if google map allowed multiple markers and distance measurement. Maybe if you want a serious attempt to get an actual large printed map with the actual nine dash line on it. One with a proper projection though I don't think there will be a lot of distortion near the equator.

Thanks no-name
To me that is a picture worth a thousand words.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Strategic implication for Taiwan is not where would China place its S-400 batteries in peacetime . Strategic and worrying implication for Taiwan is newly acquired ability of China to place those batteries across Taiwan in relatively short time if situation deteriorate .
Exactly.

And my point has been that this is what they would do.

The earlier suggestions by posters that China should place these batteries right up next to their shores and border with the express intent of intimidating India, the ROC, Japan, Vietnam, etc is what generated my entire response in the first place.

The PRC is not going to do that. it would be folly.

What they will do is place them where they will:

1) Provide protection to critical places (cities, infrastructure, bases, etc.) within China.
2) Have them available so they can do precisely what you just said.

With that...this has been beat to death. I've said my piece on it.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Also, S-400 batteries are not offensive and strategic weapons like the DF11,15 & 16 that are pointed at Taiwan. It would be illogical of Taiwan to throw a fit over such defensive missiles.
Read my replies and the posts that they were in response to.

in the context the responses were given....it would not be illogical at all.

Then read my last response to Thunder on this.

That is all.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Thanks no-name
To me that is a picture worth a thousand words.
It's better to park a 52D in the area instead of deploying a mobile SAM on a small island. a 52D is truly mobile and have offensive capabilities. Anyone that wants to attack Chinese islands has to find the ship and take it out first
 
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