Reverse Engineering Is Extremely Difficult

For those of you who think reverse-engineering is merely obtaining a sample of high-technology and pushing the "copy" button, think again. To produce the Yu-6 torpedo, a reverse-engineered Mark 48 torpedo, it took ten years and 18 patents for brilliant teams of Chinese scientists to reproduce the Mark 48 torpedo.

Reverse-engineering is not copying. Reverse-engineering is the reinvention of the entire manufacturing process, including patents, to build the high-technology weapon or equipment. Unless you have dedicated brilliant scientists and a sufficiently-advanced high-technology base, reverse-engineering of high-technology weapons or equipment is not possible.

Let's examine the excruciating process to reverse-engineer a mere torpedo. Please read the following paragraphs on the reverse-engineering of the Mark 48 torpedo. When you're done, tell me that you're not impressed by the scientists in a developing country that reinvented a high-technology weapon made by the world's leading technological power.



"Yu-6 torpedo
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yu-6 (鱼-6) torpedo is the Chinese equivalent of the Mark 48 torpedo. In addition to wire and active / passive homing guidance, wake homing guidance is also incorporated. Many domestic Chinese sources have claimed that Yu-6 torpedo is in the same class as the Mk 48 Mod. 4 torpedo, but official information of Yu-6 torpedo released by the Chinese government is limited and such claim thus cannot be confirmed by sources outside China.

Background

At least one Mark 48 torpedo was reportedly recovered by Chinese fishermen in the late 1970s or early 1980s, and China might have begun the reverse engineering in the 1980s. However, due to the inexperience of the Chinese technological base at the time, as well as the concentration on economic development, most of the reverse engineering attempt was put on hold after research had been completed on Otto fuel II, wire guidance and some other subsystems, but some research continued on much smaller scale. The Yu-6 torpedo developmental program experienced a revival when the Chinese military realized that despite developing several torpedoes including the Yu-1, Yu-2, Yu-3, Yu-4, and Yu-5, the obsolete doctrine of having separate ASuW and ASW torpedoes proved to be unsuited for modern naval warfare and the Chinese navy needed a torpedo for both ASuW and ASW. As a result, the Yu-6 program was fully resumed in 1995 and 705th Institute was named as the primary contractor, Mr. Dong Chunpeng (董春鹏) as the general designer.

Development

One of the difficulties encountered was that the Yu-6 torpedo had greater operating depth than all previous Chinese torpedoes, and China could not build the new casing needed. A brand new alloy was required to cast the outer casing of the Yu-6 torpedo, and under the leadership of Professor. Ding Wenjiang (丁文江) of material science at Shanghai Jiao Tong University, the problem was solved when ZLJD-1S alloy was successfully developed and used to cast the casing for Yu-6 torpedo. Professor He Yuyao (贺昱曜) was in charge of developing power module for the newly developed computer of Yu-6 torpedo, and due to extremely high standard of the processing capability that demanded very advanced power source, this power module took three years to complete, (1999 – 2001).

Another huge obstacle faced was the casing for the acoustic seeker required new materials to build, but China had never had any experience in this field when the reverse engineering was first attempted. Despite most reverse engineering attempt was put on hold, research in this field continued and Tianjin Rubber Research Institute (also known as Tianjin Municipal Rubber Industry Research Institute (天津市橡胶工业研究所) was tasked to develop the rubber needed for the acoustic seeker casing. A team of 7 scientists including Shen Yingjun (申英俊), Hou Yehua (侯月华), Zhang Jianguo (张建国), Ma Gangying (马刚英), Zhang Lixia (张立侠), An Jiazhu (安家柱) and Zhang Suqin (章素琴) was formed, and eventually developed new rubber and production technique needed October, 1994, shortly before the Yu-6 program was fully resumed in 1995. The resulting rubber not only met the original requirement, but also exceeded it, with density reaching 1.098 ton per cubic meter, speed of sound reaching 1,551 metre per second, and surface roughness reaching 0.16 micrometer.

The propulsion system was the biggest obstacle in the development of Yu-6 torpedo. A team of three scientists including Ms. Su Li (苏丽), Mr. Mao Yuanfu (毛元福) and Mr. Wang Lisong (王立松) of Harbin Electro Carbon Research Institute (哈尔滨电碳研究所) was tasked to develop the graphite material used to make engine valves and other components. By September, 1998 the new graphite material, designated as M130, had been successfully developed and then utilized for Yu-6 torpedo. The piston ring of the engine was developed successfully in December 2003 by Yizheng Shuanghuan Piston Ring Co. Ltd. (仪征双环活塞环有限公司). Mr. Wang Guozhi (王国治) was in charge of noise reduction and his successful research in this field resulted in him winning a second place in the Chinese national scientific and technology advancement award in 1998.

Over two-thirds of the technologies used for Yu-6 torpedo were new to the Chinese, and there were some serious doubts that China could complete the project on its own. Mr. Dong Chunpeng (董春鹏), a University of Science & Technology of China graduate in 1966 who then worked for 705th Institute since was determined to succeed, which he did after developing 18 patents including four in fields that China had never had any experience. After ten years of development, Yu-6 torpedo was finally accepted into service in 2005, and for the success, Mr. Dong Chunpeng (董春鹏) was awarded the 2006 Scientific and Technological Advancement Award at the end of February in Beijing. One characteristic of Yu-6 torpedo is its high performance processor. In comparison to the Motorola 68000 or Intel 8086 microprocessors commonly used on most western torpedoes, the microprocessor used for Yu-6 torpedo is at least equal to the Intel 80486 class. Some domestic Chinese sources have claimed that Loongson-1 is used for Yu-6 torpedo, and the operating system is the Kylin operating system developed by the National Defense Science and Technology University, but this has yet to be confirmed by both the Chinese government and sources outside China. Another characteristic of Yu-6 torpedo is that the transducer array of its acoustic seeker has at least 55 transducers, more than that of US Mark 48 torpedo, which has a total of 52 transducers, but the exact number has not been released. Yu-6 torpedo was also the first Chinese torpedo designed with the concepts of modular design and open architecture software programming in mind, so that when new technologies and programs become available, they could be readily incorporated. In comparison to the first generation Chinese wire guided torpedo Yu-5 torpedo, which must use acoustic guidance in the terminal stage or when the wire is severed, the wire and acoustic guidance can be switched from one to another at any time in the Yu-6 torpedo. Furthermore, when the wire of Yu-6 torpedo is severed, the targeting information stored in the memory would enable the computer onboard to calculate the approximate new location of the target, augmenting the acoustic homing to achieve a higher kill probability.

Specifications

* Diameter: 533 mm
* Guidance: passive / active acoustic homing + wake homing + wire guidance
* Propulsion: Otto fuel II
* Speed: maximum > 65 kt (for attack)
* Range: maximum 45 km+ (at the cruise speed)"


Yu-6 torpedo

The most interesting and controversial debate regarding China's reverse-engineering was the development of China's W-88 class miniaturized thermonuclear warhead. The U.S. claims that China appropriated the designs and reverse-engineered the W-88 warhead. China says that isn't true.

China says that this is a case of convergent engineering. For example, an airplane must have two wings to provide lift and an engine to provide thrust in the rear. Another example of convergent engineering is that all rockets are long and thin. In other words, form must follow function. There is only a very limited way to create a massive thermonuclear explosion using a compact warhead.

Here is the crux of the problem. "U.S. government realized that information derived from Chinese tests in 1992-1996 were similar to U.S. nuclear designs." The Chinese nuclear tests data are "similar," but not identical to U.S. nuclear tests on the W-88.





"The W88 is a United States thermonuclear warhead, with an estimated yield of 475 kiloton (kt), and is small enough to fit on MIRVed missiles. The W88 was designed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in the 1970s. In 1999 the director of Los Alamos who had presided over its design described it as "The most advanced U.S. nuclear warhead."[1]

The Trident II SLBM can be armed with up to 8 W88 (475 kt) warheads (Mark 5) or 8 W76 (100 kt) warheads (Mark 4), but it is limited to 4 warheads under SORT."



"...According to the Cox Committee Report, suspicion of China's nuclear espionage started after the U.S. government realized that information derived from Chinese tests in 1992-1996 were similar to U.S. nuclear designs. This similarity, combined with other information derived from classified sources, led the Cox Committee to claim that China had stolen several bomb designs, including the U.S.' most advanced W-88 design and a design for an enhanced radiation weapon (neutron bomb). Yet, the Cox Report has been severely criticized by both experts and officials in the United States as a political document that has several technical inaccuracies."

There's a lot of propaganda misinformation about China stealing nuke secrets from the US. The fact is the Republican God, Ronald Reagan, let Chinese scientists into US nuclear labs to learn how to make nukes. When neo-con ultra-right talk show host Michael "Savage" Weiner was just working at a local San Francisco radio station before he went national, he had the father of the neutron bomb, Samuel Cohen, on his show to interview hoping to uncover the vast Chinese spy network stealing American's nukes secrets. Cohen surprised him saying that because those in the Pentagon feared that the Soviet Union was going to invade China and they feared the reliability of Chinese nukes as a deterent, Ronald Reagan let Chinese nuclear scientists into US labs to learn how to make nukes. So all this stealing crap is all spin from those that have a political agenda to make it look like China stole US nukes secrets and thus making Americans a victim. It's a lot better story especially when the cry of China stealing nukes came during the Clinton administration and they were never going to admit Ronald Reagan let the Chinese into US labs.

And how did they conclude China stole the blueprints of the W-88? Someone walked into the US embassy in Beijing and left a pencil drawing with the same dimensions of the W-88. That's it. You can't get that out of a book? I believe I have a book on US military hardware from before then where there was a picture of the W-88. If I pencil traced it, does that mean I possess a W-88 warhead in my house?

Martian,

Thanks for the post.

This post would have served a better purpose, if it was posted on pakistani and indian defence forums. Those guys really really need an education in what reverse engineering is and how difficult is it to copy a product.

MastanKhan said:

Marian,

Thanks for the post.

This post would have served a better purpose, if it was posted on pakistani and indian defence forums. Those guys really really need an education in what reverse engineering is and how difficult is it to copy a product.

Click to expand...

MastanKhan, thank you for the encouragement. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm wasting my time writing articles that no one wants to read. In any case, I will have to take a long break soon because of scholastic demands.

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Today, America's most-advanced torpedo is still the Mark 48 torpedo with incremental improvements in sensors and electronics. For reference, see Mark 48 torpedo Mod 7 at . I do not know which Mod(ification) level that China's Yu-6 torpedo has attained; however most people reasonably assume that China hasn't caught up to the Mod 7 yet.

Anyway, if any of you are wondering why I made a big hoopla out of a torpedo, let's just say that a Mark 48-class torpedo is no ordinary torpedo.


"paradisedriver — August 01, 2008 — Training exercise video showing a "kill" in one shot."
[China's Yu-6 torpedo is the equivalent of an U.S. Mark-48 torpedo, which was used in the video to sink a destroyer.]

This forum has lots of knowledge about China, I read some other topics to, all discussions have lots of information.

MastanKhan, thank you for the encouragement. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm wasting my time writing articles that no one wants to read. In any case, I will have to take a long break soon because of scholastic demands.

Click to expand...

The effort is always something to appreciated, even if it's not immediately picked up by others. I've learned that through experience with my own writings on various things.

in 1995,the CIA finally learned that soviet stolen more than "near 1 million" industrial sample, and over 2 million technical document, but half of them never make it to civilian and military industries, explaination is that the stolen technology has to conformed to the soviet plan economy,other was the technology is beyond the soviet technical capabilities.other issue such as cost effective,
when it come reverse engineering, soviet found subsitition,incorporate there own know how and innovation.result is the clone copy is better than the original.

Where did the Chinese fishermen recovered the Mark 48 torpedo? It is interesting to know who the Americans were shooting at? And it is not a practice torpedo.

other such as China attempted to reverse engineer APG-66 (v-1) failed. according to old issue of Def. Intl. mag. China obtain the radar via pakistan's AF F-16A, after US embargo against pakistan. But like the reverse engineer of MK-48,it encounter a lot of problem.
first the clone copy of APG-66 has high side lobe, making the radar vulnerable to cross interence,(mutual jamming). other problem was her TWT .Chinese TWT transmitter has lower MTBF and lower output.
several J-8-2 was equip with this radar, but eventually abandone in favor russian radar.