Questions concerning US carrier operations

Perhaps someone can help me out here, answering some of my questions. Bd popaye, having served on nimitz class himself, is very welcome to contribute to this thread but everyone should feel free to offer sharing their knowledge.
We'll assume a nimitz class carrier, like the latest ronald reagan.

1. Which ship classes, and how many of them, would comprise carrier's battle group in a realistic war situation?

2. How close would those ships be to the carrier itself? Would some be placed 50, 100 or even more km from the carrier? Is there a certain formation, perhaps a ring around the carrier, that is used?

3. Is it procedure on the carrier itself to always have air intrediction fighters prepared to be launched? (if so, how many would be prepared, fueled up and packing missiles) How long does it take to prepare a f18 for such mission?

4. How many launches can the carrier make within a 10 minute period, assuming the planes themselves are already fueled and armed?

5. How far away does E-2c station from the carrier itself? How long can it endure on station being, say, 300 km away from carrier? Of course i'm looking for just ballpark figures, actual data would of course change on case by case basis.

6. How long does it take for an E-2c that has just landed to be refuelled and prepared for a new mission and launched again?

7. How long does it take for a f18 that has just landed to be refuelled, rearmed and prepared for a new mission - and to be launched again?

8. Would it be safe to assume that even though the carrier group itself might shut down all of its radars in order to minimize detection - that the airborne E-2c would keep its radars active all the time no matter what? Would they turn it off if attacked themselves, or is continuous monitoring in such a situation more important than safety of the E-2?

9. Assuming there's just one E-2 on station at any given time, how many f18s would there be with it on station to protect it? Assuming there are two E-2 on station (providing such sortie rates can be pulled off in the first place) how many f18s would each of them have as cover?

Let me take a stab:

1.) A carrier groups make up depends on the level of threat in a particular region. Here is the current make up.

2.) The carrier group formation has several standard elements positioned according to a threat axis - the estimate of the likely direction from which an enemy attack will come. A threat axis will almost certainly change over time, as the fleet moves. There may be a single threat axis or one for each type of enemy: AAW (Anti-Air Warfare), ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare), and ASuW (Anti-Surface Warfare). However, in reality usually only one axis is used; the complexity of adding more tends to confuse the formation.

The positions in the formation are called station assignments. A ship's position depends on its abilities. Many modern warships can fight several ways, but some are better at certain things. AAW and ASW are the important defensive properties. ASuW conduct is usually offensive.

A standard formation provides a number of layers of defense, designed to give maximum protection to the fleet's high value units (HVUs) or main body. Furthest out are the picket ships, Combat Air Patrol (CAP) craft and early warning aircraft (AEW). These units operate at 200 nautical miles (370 km) or more out from the main body. The units of the outer screen operate between 12 and 25 nautical miles (22 and 46 km) from the main body. The inner screen is within 10 nautical miles (19 km) of the HVUs.

The outer screen is intended to detect and engage any enemy units that have bypassed the pickets. Its ships must be multi-role, but there is usually an emphasis on ASW, especially passive detection. It is quieter out there than near the HVUs and so detection is easier. Preferably there are helicopter ASW assets for 'stand off' engagement. The ASW ships are usually assigned to specific sectors which allows a 'sprint and drift' detection of submarines - the ship 'sprints' to the front edge of its sector, then slowly moves back across the sector. Passive towed sonar arrays operate very efficiently on the return leg. AAW ships in the outer screen operate to protect ASW operations and to attack enemy aircraft before they reach their weapons-launching points, so range of defensive weapon is more important than rate of fire here.

The inner screen emphasis is on AAW. The central task is to engage any airborne threats that penetrate that far. This means the threat is almost certainly a missile so AAW rate of fire is important. The more defensive firepower in the air the more enemy threats will be destroyed. For ASW the inner screen needs good active sonar. Any threat this close is too serious for passive sonar as immediate targeting is needed. Checking the area around and under HVUs for submarines is called 'delousing'. If possible at least one ASW helicopter is always airborne, to target detected contacts as quickly as possible. from wikipedia

3.) Carriers may have at least 2 fighters on ready lauch status in addition to CAP.

4.) Nimitz have 4 catapults that can lauched an aircraft every 30 seconds. It can lauched its entire airwing within a 10 minute time frame.

5.) Hawkeyes have exceptional loiter time and range. That really depends on the commander. In the Cold War exercise, Hawkeyes will fly 150 nm from the carrier at low altitudes to decrease detection then climb and start radiating. It gives a false impression as to where the carrier is.

6.) Depends on the deck crew but since there are no ordiance to put in, its just a matter of refueling and changing crews and then off again. A carrier air wing usually have 4 hawkeyes.

7.) See above but add ordinance. I think a sortie rate of 4 perday per aircraft is very good.

8.) Again depends on the commander. But in times of war, more than one E-2 are usually airborne and they have overlapping coverage. Of course, they usually have fighter escorts.

9.) See above..


Again it just depends what the footing is on the carrier.


The key to successful AAW is AEW. If attacking units can be identified before they reach their launch points then the battle can occur at the outer air-battle screen rather than the inner screen. An AEW unit in a race-track loiter 100 nautical miles (190 km) ahead of the PIM, with a fighter escort, is perfect.

In this area the interceptor aircraft of the Combat Air Patrol (CAP) are the principal element, whether originating from a CVBG or land base. CAP units protecting units other than their home base are called LORCAP (LOng Range CAP).

The CAP is usually positioned 160 to 180 nautical miles (300 to 330 km) from the units to be protected, along the expected threat axis. At this point the units will wait in a fuel saving loiter to engage incoming groups with AA missiles. As the engagements progress, relief units are dispatched to the CAP to ensure that later attacks are met with full weapon loads. If attacking units penetrate the outer defenses they can be intercepted with aircraft in ready-5status, if used.

Within the main body, ship-based AAW is the main protection. AAW shooters are, in best practice, positioned to provide both layered and overlapping coverage. The optimum firing position is directly between the target and the inbound missiles. If the missile passes a unit on a tangent (a crossing shot) the probability of a kill (Pk) is greatly reduced. The US Navy prefers that Aegis equipped units should be kept in close proximity to the HVUs, with less able AAW units no more than 10 nautical miles (19 km) out along the threat axis with, if possible, further AAW assets 18 to 24 nautical miles (33 to 44 km) out.

Other AAW tactics include the use of picket ships in a silent SAM or missile trap. In a missile trap, if the main body is forced to use active emissions (they are already detected and localized) the one or two ships can be positioned in emission silence 100 to 150 nautical miles (190 to 280 km) out. When other units detect an incoming raid the, usually, cruisers can go active as the raid moves into their engagement envelope. However once these units go active, they are unsupported and are vulnerable to individual attack.

Silent SAM is a technological tactic. Some modern missiles can be fired from one platform with targeting and guidance from another platform and need never illuminate the targets themselves

Thank you very much for your input. It was valuable, especially bits about distance of ships from the carrier and the max launch rate of planes.

I do have to repeat this one question again though, as i find it extremely important:

Would it be safe to assume that even though the carrier group itself might shut down all of its radars in order to minimize detection - that the airborne E-2c would keep its radars active all the time no matter what?


Also, I think you and i discussed the silent trap tactic before and while its clear it has its uses i still can't find its justification in a war with an enemy that has dedicated aew and maritime surveillance planes. Here the maximum line of sight range from approximately 10 km altitude is around 370 km. such a ship, even if silent, would be detected before it could launch its missiles. (or in the worst case on the very maximum range of sm-2 block IVer so with flight time and possible additional range to cross - effectiveness of those missiles would drop sharply)

sm-2er is a different missile than sm-2 block IVer, right? sm2-er is older model, not in use anymore, while the latter has been fielded in 1998, right?

Anyway, in such a scenario, the forward positioned lone ship would be detected, attacking force could be redirected and it could be more easely destroyed than if it was a part of a larger force that can protect each other. (with attackers still suffering considerable losses, of course, depending on how effective those standards are versus the effectivenes of defenders to jam/evade etc)

Of course, if the potential attacker does not have the means to actively monitor the sea hundreds of km away but instead has to rely on fighter and strike plane radars providing perhaps half the range - such a silent trap tactic could indeed prove its worth.

I do have to repeat this one question again though, as i find it extremely important:

Would it be safe to assume that even though the carrier group itself might shut down all of its radars in order to minimize detection - that the airborne E-2c would keep its radars active all the time no matter what?

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In naval warfare, the key is to detect the enemy while avoiding detection. Much time and effort is spent to deny the enemy the chance to detect your forces.

The fact that a missile launched on a passive fix from over-the-horizon is deadly creates a central problem for a naval force -- when, and even if, units should radiate, and if not how to detect the enemy? This is detectability vs. survivability. The need to obtain a targeting solution has to be balanced against the enemy's ability to do the same. Although once a commander feels that his fleet's position is known to the enemy a move to active emissions may be vital to prevent destruction, or else the only warning of incoming missiles will be when they turn on their terminal guidance systems.

The control of emissions is called EMCON (EMissions CONtrol). There are three states, A, B and C. A is no emissions, B is limited emissions (no unique emissions), and C is unrestricted. EMCON is not a blanket condition across the fleet. The surface units can be at A while a sufficiently distant AEW aircraft can be at C.

US carriers in a wartime fooring will be using an EMCON A, unless the commander is already sure that is forced has already been detected and track. AEW will always be at EMCOM C. This arrangement you get the best of both worlds, you can detect while minimizing your chance of being detected. Now modern US systems have real time data sharing. That is, what the AEW sees, the rest of the task force sees in real time. In other words, they do not have to rely on their on board to see the battle space. This is done in real time WITHOUT any lag. To answer your question...yes, AEW needs to radiating at all time.

Anyway, in such a scenario, the forward positioned lone ship would be detected, attacking force could be redirected and it could be more easely destroyed than if it was a part of a larger force that can protect each other. (with attackers still suffering considerable losses, of course, depending on how effective those standards are versus the effectivenes of defenders to jam/evade etc)

Of course, if the potential attacker does not have the means to actively monitor the sea hundreds of km away but instead has to rely on fighter and strike plane radars providing perhaps half the range - such a silent trap tactic could indeed prove its worth.

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Agreed. However, using a Burke destroyer as bait will reduce your force concentration. USN did this in the Battle of Marianas, its battleships proved a much tempting target to the Japanese that they wasted much of their striking power by trying to sink them (battleships are much much harder to sink). As a result, only a fraction of their strike force attempt to sink the carriers. The same scenario could be used with Burke destroyers. If I was a battlegroup commander, sacrificing a Burke to save a carrier is a good trade.

IDonT, Dude you are on fire..You are right on the money with your answers.

The biggest difference on how the USN operates is the constant training that goes on. Day in and day out. They never stop. In port or at sea. They train for every possible sernerio.

Another factor to consider is the USAF which works hand in hand with the USN refueling aircraft, ECM & AEW. The USAF and USN have been doing this for over 20 years. Nowadays with combatiable systems and technology they form a formidable team.

7. How long does it take for a f18 that has just landed to be refuelled, rearmed and prepared for a new mission - and to be launched again?

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Depends on the flight schedule. . A USN CV conducts what is called cyclitc operations. that is everything is in a cycle. Launch, recovery, respot,refuel and rearm. The whole cycle usally take 1.5 hours. Some are longer . Some are shorter.

Nimitz have 4 catapults that can lauched an aircraft every 30 seconds. It can lauched its entire airwing within a 10 minute time frame

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While true. In my experience on 5 CV's, three of which had 4 catapults, 4 "cats" are seldom used during a launch. Usally just three are used.

Which ship classes, and how many of them, would comprise carrier's battle group in a realistic war situation?

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CSG vary but generally consist of:

1 CV or CVN..of course.
1 Tico class CG
2 Arliegh Burke Class DDG's
1 LA class SSN
1 or 2 replenshipment ships.

The exception is the USS Kitty Hawk CSG which has:
1 CV
2 Tico class CG's
5 Arliegh Burke DDG's..that's right five..
3 Oliver Hazzard Perry class FFG's
1 LA class SSN
1-2 replinishment ship.

Why such a large goup assigned to CV-63? It is foward deployed tp Yokosuka Japan.. In the advent of real war footing expect USN CSG to deploy like similar to CV-63 CSG.

Popeye is totally correct on force dispositions. Basically, a CSG will deploy the amount of force protection necessary to ensure survival of the group, and to ensure that adequate force is there for mission viability (Why you're there). And it will vary based upon the threat assessment and operational requirements. There are many ways to deploy your forces to draw enemies away from where the carrier will operate. That's why you may see certain elements using different types of EMCON like what IDon't describes. And they will be mobilized in different areas to force any enemy naval operators to disperse their resources. And even their movements can work in their favor.

Thank you all for your replies. It's still very interesting to me how hawkeyes have to have their radars on all the time. Lets incorporate that fact in a scenario where the carrier has land strikes for a mission, meaning it has to approach enemy's coastline thus loses some of its freedom (depth wise) to move around freely to help hide its location. So you have hawkeyes blasting their radars off, detectable some 500 km away, pretty much meaning that ground stations and enemy awacs even over homeland can deduce a general location of the hawkeye. One knows hawkeyes, in order to maintain two planes on station at any given time, cant be more than 400 km away from the carrier itself. Add 200 km more just to be on the safe side.

One also knows hawkeye, while perhaps not exactly in the way of the threat axis, must be more or less in that direction, finally giving a much smaller slice of pie to search through. Probably a 60 degree wedge search would find the carrier but lets use 90 degree just to be on the safe side. With three awacs planes enemy could cover more than enough of sea surface and, flying and would be able to locate the carrier group itself with its radar anywhere from 30-60 minutes from the moment it starts flying out to the sea.

Of course, before the enemy awacs could get to the point from which they can see the carrier group, they'd have to face the carrier's fighters. That's really a matter of how capable enemy planes are, how many of them there are. Also, since the carrier has come to deliver strike missions, it is unreasonable to expect it would have all the fighter craft prepared for air defense. While it theoretically can launch all of its 55 or so f18s within 10 minutes it is my opinion that, unless it gets more than the one hour warning of incoming force, itd be hard pressed to scramble more than, say, 18 f18s equipped to intercept in time. That's, of course, on top of the hawkeye fighter cover. Trouble is, even the E/F models, when on station some 300 km away have just 2:15 hours of loiter time. If one tries to operat two hawekes at any given time, it'd mean for each hawkeye two sets of f18 fighter cover would have to be used. Most of the f18s are still older models, with just 1:45 hours of loiter time on such away station. three sets of fighters would have to be used per each hawkeye. What do you think how many f18s could be prepared for air interception?

But, its war. Anything can happen. Other resources may be used to detect the enemy preparations for attack, giving several hours of warning, perhaps even using other resources in the theater to launch a preventive strike first. Also, who's to say how many carrier groups would operate togethr, relatievely close to each other, helping each other. Plus some land based fighters may be within range to help too. It's war, anything goes. I was just curious about the theory.

Carrier groups usually have a concept of battle space: a zone around a naval force within which a commander is confident of detecting, tracking, engaging and destroying threats before they pose a danger. This is why a navy prefers the open sea. The presence of land and the bottom topology of an area compress the battle space, limit the opportunities to maneuver, make it easier for an enemy to predict the location of the fleet and make the detection of enemy forces more difficult. In shallow waters, the detection of submarines and mines is especially problematic.

In regards to your scenario, a battlegroup commander will never want to plan a deep penetration strikes as long hostiles are still around. Not unless he wants to keep his job. The first thing he would do is launched fighter sweeps sorties on known airfields to clear or lessen the enemy's fighter. This would also be in conjunction with TLAM strikes on know SAM sights, Radar installations, and the airfield itself. Once you degrade the enemy's airforce, this is the time to bring your carriers closer, then lauched your attack.

If you are going to try to sink a Nimitz class carrier, here are the ways it can counter you. Written in sequence.

1. Not being found
2. Killing the shooter by aircraft
3. Killing the missile using aircraft
4. Decoys
5. SM-2 and ESSM
6. SeaRAM or Phalanx
7. ECM soft-kill systems
8. Pray

Carrier Groups can be as large and involves more than the USN as depicted in the following picture

That of course makes sense, not to approach the enemy coast before you're fairly sure you won't put yourself in grave danger by doing so. But can one afford to be so cautious in war? Can one afford not to be so cautious? Basically, carrier(s) wouldn't approach enemy's coast before other forces would soften the enemy first. Be that long range bombers/fighters, cruise missile attacks, etc.

Still, in a overseas war, where every base from which to launch attack is important, i would think sooner or later US would just give it a shot, massing as many carrier groups as possible, aiding the USAF forces, and just try for one big simultaneous strike, engaging majority of enemy forces at the same time. Or if they'r not confident they can tie enough enemy forces down, then they wouldn't even start the war. As always, intelligence information would be paramount - just what sort of enemy numbers/capabilities we're looking to fight.

Anyway, not to have this thread turn into another 'how to sink a carrier' thread, i'll end my post here and now.