QTS-11 OICW. 5.8 mm Heavy and 20 mm Air Burst.

Discussion in 'Army' started by tanlixiang28776, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. tanlixiang28776
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    tanlixiang28776 Junior Member

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    [​IMG]

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    This came off a export exhibit.

    The ZH-05 is a weapon that comes closest to fulfilling the the OICW specifications.

    Four things plague OICW systems from becoming commonly used.

    Weight: Around 5 kg. This weight is not too heavy compared to the 6.1 kg K-11 and 6.8 kg XM-29

    Price: Should be much cheaper than previous OICW simply on the merit it is produced in China. Doubtful it'll cost below 3,000 dollars. While cheap compared to the 14,000 dollar K-11 or 25,000 dollar XM-25 it will still be much more expensive than the type 95 or type 03.

    Reliability: A core problem with OICWs is the delicate electronic sights. The type 05 looks to have less advanced but more rugged sights.

    Deadliness: The 20x28 mm round has doubtful lethality due to it having to in fit electronics as well as explosives. Hopefully miniaturization of electronics has solved most of this problem as well as making a larger round like a 20x32 round.

    Worst case scenario: Given to Spec Ops, and other elite infantry like Marines or Airborne.

    Best case scenario: Given to one or two soldiers in every squad.
     
  2. Asymptote
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    Asymptote Banned Idiot

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    ZH-05?
    If I am not mistaken, PLA designation for small arms are by the year - meaning this was designed in 2005 - which makes this a 6 years old prototype. Quite a long time in testing for a prototype small arm in Chinese standard.
     
  3. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Moderator
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    ^ Do we know it is a 20x28 mm round? Could it not be 20x30?

    I want to talk about the gun's electronics a little too, because the configuration and size is interesting.

    It obviously has some kind of targetting and probably fuze setting system -- there's that long rectangular slab under the scope/optics which I think fills that role. But the scope/optics looks far too small, compared to K-11 and the XM25's, to do anything other than act as a scope. Maybe night vision/thermal will be possible though, and we can't see whether there's a laser designator/distance measurer thingy mounted there, but I have a feeling there is.
    The small scope/optics mounted on the gun leads me to a number of conclusions:
    1 -- the 20mm grenade does not have a laser/fuze setting capability, but I find this doubtful because then the bulk on top of the gun on which the scope mounts on doesn't seem to have much of a use. You don't need something that big just for a 20mm grenade launcher.
    2 -- the norinco engineers or whoever developed this, has made massive strides in miniturizing electronics and has got the XM-25 and K-11's targetting set up all in the relatively small scope. Possible, but it just looks too small.
    3 -- has anyone noticed the eyesight attachment on the helmet? I think the gun might have a small camera attached on it, and feeds the display into the eyesight, which the soldier uses to do the precision aiming and selecting of airburst distance, etc.
    Now this may sound a bit out there, but I think the only limits for this option would be the (presumably) wireless feed between the gun/camera and the eyesight/helmet -- but countries are already developing more advanced full face helmets with HMD for their future soldiers, it's not impossible for a relatively rudimentary capability to exist now.
    Then that leads to the question -- why not just make combine the eyesight with the gun mounted scope for a thermal vision scope/targeting display like the K-11 and XM-25? Well I believe maybe the smaller scope allows for easier aiming and shooting of the Type 03 assault rifle part of the weapon and conserving the sheer extra size a thermal/targeting display which would otherwise make your soldier more visible.
    In other words, the scope is for assault rifle/impact fuze and "dumb" grenade use, while the eyesight is used for lazing and calibrating the distance you want the grenade to travel before airbursting -- assault rifle/dumb mode vs airburst mode.

    I might be getting ahead of myself a little, but I think this weapon has been under development for a while, and the fact that it seems to be shown for export shows that it must have undergone some extensive testing already, and is quite close to possible deployment with the PLA.

    Thoughts?
     
    #3 Bltizo, Feb 17, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
  4. tanlixiang28776
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    tanlixiang28776 Junior Member

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    Good points.

    I got the 20x28 from the XM29. I could have also used 20x30 from the K 11. Similar systems would have similar attributes.

    Without a sensor fuse/laser setting capability it would be pointless to develop a 20 mm airburst round.

    It has a very visible block on the gun which is probably the ballistic computer and laser designator. Americans and South Koreans combined sight, thermals and computer to form a huge combination. China went a separate way and split them into 2 maybe, three parts.

    If its for export then it means it has been done for years, and only now they are showing it.
     
  5. Bltizo
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    Possible precursors to this supposed ZH-05?

    [​IMG]

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    For some reason the second picture makes me think the soldier is korean... though the words on the targeting computer/optics is obviously chinese.
     
  6. tanlixiang28776
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    tanlixiang28776 Junior Member

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    The two systems don't look anything alike and has distinct design philosophies in the scopes as well as layout overall.

    just cause he has a baby face doesn't mean he is Korean.
     
  7. Bltizo
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    Actually it was the uniform and general "build" which looked unlike any I've seen on PLA troops.

    I suspect norinco, or the developers had trialled multiple configurations and optic sizes before coming to a compromise -- the two in the photos seem to be bullpup, configured more to the Type 95 than the Type 03, which this ZH-05 seems to be. There's also the massive ballistics computer/scope which they changed in the ZH-05.
     
  8. tanlixiang28776
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    Yes I think they changed the basic platform as well. And now it is much better designed and integrated.

    The one based on the type 95 also seems shorter with the two barrels almost lined up. In the ZH-05 the barrel for the 5.8 mm round is considerably longer
     
  9. In4ser
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    [​IMG]
    To me its a heavily modded Type 03 to fit in a 20mm grenade launcher and new sights. The added bulk from the top grenade launcher makes the barrel seem shorter than it actually is. It maybe cheaper and easier to make than at first glance.
     
    #9 In4ser, Feb 18, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
  10. Bltizo
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    Don't forget the ballistics computer/targeting system, and a probable camera feed to an eyepiece.
    Most of the cost will come from the electronics, and I feel that most of the additional bulk is due to that as well. Adding a 20mm grenade launcher imho wouldn't have used as much volume as the guns in the pictures seem to show.
     

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