Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
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The_Zergling
Junior Member
Some more extended commentary regarding Taiwanese conscription...
The draft is interesting in that it helps to prevent the army from easily becoming a political force, as recruits are taken from all over the country and society. It's a fairly special scenario generally limited to countries emerging from states that have long been under one-party authoritarian rule. This appears to be more of a problem of the KMT possibly misusing the military, as they have the potential ties to do so from their decades in power, while the DPP currently doesn't.
That said, switching away from conscription into a professional army in of itself isn't the problem. It's the attempt to do too much at once. The idea of the all-volunteer army isn't the result of "reduced tensions", or an attempt by the KMT to shore up support, as these ideas were tossed around during former President Chen's first term as well.
As weapon systems become increasingly difficult to operate, the period of training that conscript receive seems redundant, as it is simply too short. Thus, attracting motivated career soldiers is not a bad idea, assuming that there is enough demand for the job, which is another issue altogether. Given the worsening economy, it seems relatively plausible.
The biggest problem with the plan at this time though is that the ruling Chinese Nationalist Party is trying to simultaneously cut the military budget - the overall defense budget for 2009 is $10.17 billion, which is actually $301.4 million lower than the 2008 level. Professional armies aren't cheap. Without an increase in defense spending or special budget allocations, the creation of a full volunteer military by 2014 is simply impossible, from a financial standpoint. Thus far the government has not made any mentions regarding increased spending. Perhaps equally important is the fact that soldiers' salaries are uncompetitive - the military must attract talent in large enough a quantity to meet its requirements. Again, this takes funding that the KMT appears to be politically unwilling to push through.
Try to do two things at the same time half-heartedly and you'll end up failing both...
The draft is interesting in that it helps to prevent the army from easily becoming a political force, as recruits are taken from all over the country and society. It's a fairly special scenario generally limited to countries emerging from states that have long been under one-party authoritarian rule. This appears to be more of a problem of the KMT possibly misusing the military, as they have the potential ties to do so from their decades in power, while the DPP currently doesn't.
That said, switching away from conscription into a professional army in of itself isn't the problem. It's the attempt to do too much at once. The idea of the all-volunteer army isn't the result of "reduced tensions", or an attempt by the KMT to shore up support, as these ideas were tossed around during former President Chen's first term as well.
As weapon systems become increasingly difficult to operate, the period of training that conscript receive seems redundant, as it is simply too short. Thus, attracting motivated career soldiers is not a bad idea, assuming that there is enough demand for the job, which is another issue altogether. Given the worsening economy, it seems relatively plausible.
The biggest problem with the plan at this time though is that the ruling Chinese Nationalist Party is trying to simultaneously cut the military budget - the overall defense budget for 2009 is $10.17 billion, which is actually $301.4 million lower than the 2008 level. Professional armies aren't cheap. Without an increase in defense spending or special budget allocations, the creation of a full volunteer military by 2014 is simply impossible, from a financial standpoint. Thus far the government has not made any mentions regarding increased spending. Perhaps equally important is the fact that soldiers' salaries are uncompetitive - the military must attract talent in large enough a quantity to meet its requirements. Again, this takes funding that the KMT appears to be politically unwilling to push through.
Try to do two things at the same time half-heartedly and you'll end up failing both...
Mr T
Senior Member
Thanks for those interesting comments. I don't know if the KMT is going to increase the defence budget, but President Ma said he would do so during the election. May have to wait until after the global recession - we'll see.
Interesting comments in this article (apart from the news we've already heard) were:
Interesting comments in this article (apart from the news we've already heard) were:
- HF-IIE missile project is continuing and hasn't been shelved.
- The US is believed to be "close" to approving a contract for the AH-64 Apaches.
Aero_Wing_32
Junior Member
Taiwan flirts with buying advanced U.S. fighters
TAIPEI, Mar. 16, 2009 (Kyodo News International) -- Taiwan seeks ''next-generation'' fighter jets with stealth and short-takeoff and landing capabilities, the island's military said in a report released Monday, while a top military official said Taipei is mulling the purchase of U.S.-made F-22 or F-35 fighter jets.
The release of the report, Taiwan's Quadrennial Defense Review 2009, comes amid recent progress on pending U.S. arms deals to the island less than two months after U.S. President Barack Obama took office.
But any bid by Taiwan to buy F-22s or F-35s -- considered the most advanced fighters in the world -- is likely to come to naught, experts said, citing pressure from China, which claims self-ruled Taiwan as part of its territory and fumes over U.S. arms sales to the island.
The defense report cites ''stealth,'' or the ability to evade radar detection, and ''short-takeoff and landing'' capabilities, or the ability of a fighter to utilize short runways, as requirements for the military's ''next-generation aircraft.''
The first of its kind in Taiwan, the 103-page report outlines development objectives and doctrine for the island's military under President Ma Ying-jeou, who took office last year on a platform of improving relations with rival China.
Although the report does not specifically mention the F-35 or other aircraft, only the F-35 combines stealth technology with the ability to take off and land with little to no runway space, said Wendell Minnick, Asia bureau chief for Defense News, a U.S. weekly. ''No other platform on the planet does that,'' he said.
The military confirmed in a Taipei press conference that the F-35 was being considered for purchase.
''Stealth is one of the options we're looking at for our next-generation aircraft. Short-takeoff and landing technology is another,'' said Air Force Chief of Staff, Lt. Gen. Wu Chien-hsing.
''We haven't actually decided on what type of aircraft we need -- probably the F-22, the F-35, the (French-made) Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon, or even a fighter developed by the Aerospace Industrial Development Corp. that meets our requirements,'' he said, referring to a government-owned company.
Taiwan's wish-list raised eyebrows for its boldness, with Washington already stalling on the island's request for 66 less-advanced F-16s. Since 2006, Washington has brushed off Taipei's bid to kick-start the procurement process for the fighters, as the island's air force ages and crashes become increasingly common.
Beijing has pressured Washington to prevent the F-16s deal from coming to fruition and severed bilateral military exchanges last year, when the U.S. Congress approved a separate arms package to Taipei worth US$6.5 billion. But U.S.-China defense ties have since recovered amid the Obama administration's efforts to restart military dialogue with Beijing.
Relations across the Taiwan Strait have also warmed dramatically since Ma came to power in May, with the two sides hammering out a series of sweeping transit and trade pacts.
Still, ''China has not renounced the use of force against Taiwan,'' the report notes. China currently deploys more than 1,300 short-range missiles against the island, it said.
Defense Minister Chen Chao-min told lawmakers Monday cross-strait military confidence-building measures would be impossible without China's first renouncing the use of force against Taiwan and removing its missiles deployed against the island.
Amid the lingering threat of attack, fighters like the F-35 would be critical to air defense, said former National Security Council official York Chen.
Taking off and landing vertically or on short runways -- a key capability of one version of the F-35 -- would be critical in a first-wave attack by China, as runways would likely be shredded by Chinese ordnance, said Chen, who now serves as CEO of the Institute for Taiwan Defense and Strategic Studies, a Taipei-based think thank.
F-16s, on the other hand, require relatively long runways for successful takeoffs and landings, Chen said.
''Taiwan has been talking with various parties about getting the technology for developing its own aircraft with vertical takeoff and landing capabilities,'' he said, adding the island ''has a long time to wait before the possibility of procuring the F-35 even emerges.''
Taiwan had expressed an interest in F-35s as early as 2006, but Washington was cold to the notion of selling them to Taipei, according to Jane's Defence Weekly. Washington balks at releasing the F-22 to any ally, citing the fighter's advanced technology.
Still, the report emerged just days after Washington decided to release a dozen marine patrol aircraft to Taipei in a deal worth US$1.3 billion.
The report also said the government aims to downsize the island's 275,000-strong military to 210,500 service people by 2014, a reduction in personnel involving deep changes in force structure.
Taiwan's military has tied the personnel cuts to warming relations with China. The cuts are part of the island's planned shift from a conscript-based military to an all-volunteer one.
:coffee: Don t say this report is a sweet dream, summed up by a journalist belonging to a US lobbyist wing!...
F-22... F-35! Both expensive (even for the USA now), highly classified!
TAIPEI, Mar. 16, 2009 (Kyodo News International) -- Taiwan seeks ''next-generation'' fighter jets with stealth and short-takeoff and landing capabilities, the island's military said in a report released Monday, while a top military official said Taipei is mulling the purchase of U.S.-made F-22 or F-35 fighter jets.
The release of the report, Taiwan's Quadrennial Defense Review 2009, comes amid recent progress on pending U.S. arms deals to the island less than two months after U.S. President Barack Obama took office.
But any bid by Taiwan to buy F-22s or F-35s -- considered the most advanced fighters in the world -- is likely to come to naught, experts said, citing pressure from China, which claims self-ruled Taiwan as part of its territory and fumes over U.S. arms sales to the island.
The defense report cites ''stealth,'' or the ability to evade radar detection, and ''short-takeoff and landing'' capabilities, or the ability of a fighter to utilize short runways, as requirements for the military's ''next-generation aircraft.''
The first of its kind in Taiwan, the 103-page report outlines development objectives and doctrine for the island's military under President Ma Ying-jeou, who took office last year on a platform of improving relations with rival China.
Although the report does not specifically mention the F-35 or other aircraft, only the F-35 combines stealth technology with the ability to take off and land with little to no runway space, said Wendell Minnick, Asia bureau chief for Defense News, a U.S. weekly. ''No other platform on the planet does that,'' he said.
The military confirmed in a Taipei press conference that the F-35 was being considered for purchase.
''Stealth is one of the options we're looking at for our next-generation aircraft. Short-takeoff and landing technology is another,'' said Air Force Chief of Staff, Lt. Gen. Wu Chien-hsing.
''We haven't actually decided on what type of aircraft we need -- probably the F-22, the F-35, the (French-made) Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon, or even a fighter developed by the Aerospace Industrial Development Corp. that meets our requirements,'' he said, referring to a government-owned company.
Taiwan's wish-list raised eyebrows for its boldness, with Washington already stalling on the island's request for 66 less-advanced F-16s. Since 2006, Washington has brushed off Taipei's bid to kick-start the procurement process for the fighters, as the island's air force ages and crashes become increasingly common.
Beijing has pressured Washington to prevent the F-16s deal from coming to fruition and severed bilateral military exchanges last year, when the U.S. Congress approved a separate arms package to Taipei worth US$6.5 billion. But U.S.-China defense ties have since recovered amid the Obama administration's efforts to restart military dialogue with Beijing.
Relations across the Taiwan Strait have also warmed dramatically since Ma came to power in May, with the two sides hammering out a series of sweeping transit and trade pacts.
Still, ''China has not renounced the use of force against Taiwan,'' the report notes. China currently deploys more than 1,300 short-range missiles against the island, it said.
Defense Minister Chen Chao-min told lawmakers Monday cross-strait military confidence-building measures would be impossible without China's first renouncing the use of force against Taiwan and removing its missiles deployed against the island.
Amid the lingering threat of attack, fighters like the F-35 would be critical to air defense, said former National Security Council official York Chen.
Taking off and landing vertically or on short runways -- a key capability of one version of the F-35 -- would be critical in a first-wave attack by China, as runways would likely be shredded by Chinese ordnance, said Chen, who now serves as CEO of the Institute for Taiwan Defense and Strategic Studies, a Taipei-based think thank.
F-16s, on the other hand, require relatively long runways for successful takeoffs and landings, Chen said.
''Taiwan has been talking with various parties about getting the technology for developing its own aircraft with vertical takeoff and landing capabilities,'' he said, adding the island ''has a long time to wait before the possibility of procuring the F-35 even emerges.''
Taiwan had expressed an interest in F-35s as early as 2006, but Washington was cold to the notion of selling them to Taipei, according to Jane's Defence Weekly. Washington balks at releasing the F-22 to any ally, citing the fighter's advanced technology.
Still, the report emerged just days after Washington decided to release a dozen marine patrol aircraft to Taipei in a deal worth US$1.3 billion.
The report also said the government aims to downsize the island's 275,000-strong military to 210,500 service people by 2014, a reduction in personnel involving deep changes in force structure.
Taiwan's military has tied the personnel cuts to warming relations with China. The cuts are part of the island's planned shift from a conscript-based military to an all-volunteer one.
:coffee: Don t say this report is a sweet dream, summed up by a journalist belonging to a US lobbyist wing!...
F-22... F-35! Both expensive (even for the USA now), highly classified!:coffee: Don t say this report is a sweet dream, summed up by a journalist belonging to a US lobbyist wing!...
f-35 isnt that expensive...that's why they made it lol.
i doubt we'll see any of these two stealth fighters in Taiwan anytime soon though, at least not until the PLAAF begin fielding their own advanced stealth fighters. besides, if i were taiwanese military i'd wanna wait a bit and see how these fighters perform in real combat before i decide whether or not it is worth buying them. but the politicians prolly wanna purchase those fighters for different reasons
Aero_Wing_32
Junior Member
"f-35 isnt that expensive...that's why they made it lol"
Highly humorous, you! :rofl:
Highly humorous, you! :rofl:
dude just check out how much a single unit of f-35 cost compared to f-22. the americans cant afford a lot of f-22's but they sure can do with 35s
Aero_Wing_32
Junior Member
Pal, I even don t know whether anybody knows the real cost for JSF program so far...
All in all, the fact is that the price is approaching that of the F-22... an aicraft that outperforms it by a wide margin in almost every significant measure of performance... somewhat ridiculous and very dissapointing to lot of observers.
Additionally, there is no evidence that the F-35 will be able to hang with latest generation Russian fighters for example. Many specifications point out that in air to air combat it will only maintain F-16C performance levels...
So, Taiwan ROC has nothing to do with these 2 bags of hurts... Sorry for giving my opinion but all of this appear to me so irrelevant!
All in all, the fact is that the price is approaching that of the F-22... an aicraft that outperforms it by a wide margin in almost every significant measure of performance... somewhat ridiculous and very dissapointing to lot of observers.
Additionally, there is no evidence that the F-35 will be able to hang with latest generation Russian fighters for example. Many specifications point out that in air to air combat it will only maintain F-16C performance levels...
So, Taiwan ROC has nothing to do with these 2 bags of hurts... Sorry for giving my opinion but all of this appear to me so irrelevant!
Semi-Lobster
Junior Member
... I think maybe some of those Taiwanese Air Force higher ups need to get their heads out of the clouds and be abit more realistic here. The F-22 will not be exported. Period. It's just too sensitive to ever let go like that while the F-35 will be gonig into production and service to dozens of countries who have poured billions of dollars into the project for over a decade as soon as it is ready, by the time (in the highly unlikely event) that a politically sensitive, nation who has not contributed anything to the original projects development even gets a chance to get the F-35... well, that will take a long time for sure. What Taiwan needs to do is pull itself up with some internal spending at AIDC, much like how many countries now are encouraging and investing in domestic industries, so should Taiwan, the track record turned out well enough compared to the debacle that was the Mitsubishi F-2. Of course this is highly opinion oriented but as the article points out, there should be a sense of urgency within the ROCAF to get anything in the air.