China and the End Times

bd popeye said:

I pray these weapons systems never have to oppose each other because the result would be catastrophic for the World....

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Unfortunately , I'm of the view that these weapons will one day oppose each other in the real world ( Sunburn II vs SM4 ) . It is just a question of when . War is inevitable. (Take a peek at the biblical book of Revelations + Oxford Scofield aid -Fascinating stuff )

I only wish that I will get to see it -purely as a naval enthusiast . But then again - If one were to believe the book of revelations- the outcome is already known .

Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

Its a bit out of topic, but I came from a Catholic schooling and had my share of theology and Bible courses. In my opinion and quite a bit of many Bible analysts have taken this position, is that the Revelations tend to be metaphorical and can't be interpreted without its historical context. Not to mention its full of Jewish numerology---666, 7 angels, army of 200 million, etc,. Numerology means attaching certain meanings into numbers, not intended to be taken literally. This is not to mention that early Christians (who by the way, were the world's first true Communists, believe it or not, since they lived in communes and share their possessions as a community) also believed that the return of Christ was imminent. In my view, Revelations was about the judgment and fall of the Roman Empire itself. One cannot take the Kings of the East passage and declare that to be China, when its most likely to be about the Parthians or other Eastern invaders during that time. This Kings of the East = China passage is a source of China demonization by religious conservatives and the far right fringe.

If you are taking those views as voiced in the book Late Great Planet Earth, which are now taken by tele-evangelists, the US would already be irrelevant, the last great war, Armageddon would be fought by the Ten Nation union led by the Anti-Christ, Magog and his allies (Russia and its allies), and the four Kings of East, which is China or China with three other Eastern nations.

Assuming of course, we survive 2012.

Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

marclees said:

Unfortunately , I'm of the view that these weapons will one day oppose each other in the real world ( Sunburn II vs SM4 ) . It is just a question of when . War is inevitable. (Take a peek at the biblical book of Revelations + Oxford Scofield aid -Fascinating stuff )

I only wish that I will get to see it -purely as a naval enthusiast . But then again - If one were to believe the book of revelations- the outcome is already known .

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Im not a bible person myself, can i find the answer in the last few pages, please tell i wanna see if i can lay a bet at Willhill or Centrebet

Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

crobato said:

the Revelations tend to be metaphorical and can't be interpreted without its historical context....In my view, Revelations was about the judgment and fall of the Roman Empire itself. One cannot take the Kings of the East passage and declare that to be China, when its most likely to be about the Parthians or other Eastern invaders during that time.
If you are taking those views as voiced in the book Late Great Planet Earth, which are now taken by tele-evangelists, the US would already be irrelevant, the last great war, Armageddon would be fought by the Ten Nation union led by the Anti-Christ, Magog and his allies (Russia and its allies), and the four Kings of East, which is China or China with three other Eastern nations.
.

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Most Bible scholars will agree that Revelations is indeed metaphorical, but will also agree that it has to be interpreted in a chronological train of time . For e.g , the prophecy that the Jews were scattered all over the world occurs first and (then) nearly made extinct (Hitler's holocaust extermination of the Jews in WW2 ) & then the formation of Israel as a state (in 1948) has to occur before the battle of Armageddon (These were all prophecies by John of Patmos after his exile to the island of Patmos between 68 and 185 AD) So IMHO & with the benefit of hindsight , it cannot be about the fall of the Roman empire (as it occurred before the Holocaust and the formation of the state of Israel ).

15 years ago, when I first read about the Great King of the East teaming up with Israel to battle the Anti-Christ (Rev. 16 ).l never never envisaged a China + Israel army vs the world . Who was China then ? . However, implicit in the verses is that demise of the US as a military power . Where are all the USN 15 carrier battle groups by then ? Who in the world would have the power to sink all 15 carriers ? Russia ? (maybe) , which probably means there will indeed some reliasation of a Sunburn SSN 22 vs SM2/3 (or even a ABShM DF21 ) scenario of sort.
If some of us forum members are still around, we will get to see the actual outcome of this discussion thread .

Incidentally, today Communist China has more Christians than democratic US , and the gap will only get bigger . China a Christian country ?? Who can believe it ? I guess only time will tell.

Topics that discuss China's future in Biblical or other religious prophecy.

Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

crobato said:

Its a bit out of topic, but I came from a Catholic schooling and had my share of theology and Bible courses. In my opinion and quite a bit of many Bible analysts have taken this position, is that the Revelations tend to be metaphorical and can't be interpreted without its historical context. Not to mention its full of Jewish numerology---666, 7 angels, army of 200 million, etc,. Numerology means attaching certain meanings into numbers, not intended to be taken literally. This is not to mention that early Christians (who by the way, were the world's first true Communists, believe it or not, since they lived in communes and share their possessions as a community) also believed that the return of Christ was imminent. In my view, Revelations was about the judgment and fall of the Roman Empire itself. One cannot take the Kings of the East passage and declare that to be China, when its most likely to be about the Parthians or other Eastern invaders during that time. This Kings of the East = China passage is a source of China demonization by religious conservatives and the far right fringe.

If you are taking those views as voiced in the book Late Great Planet Earth, which are now taken by tele-evangelists, the US would already be irrelevant, the last great war, Armageddon would be fought by the Ten Nation union led by the Anti-Christ, Magog and his allies (Russia and its allies), and the four Kings of East, which is China or China with three other Eastern nations.

Assuming of course, we survive 2012.

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lol you from the states? you dont seem to like christian rights and the neocons

No matter what spin is put out there, China is never mentioned in the bible. Of course that's why they spin and reinterpret it all the time is to make it seem the bible has relevance. The reason why the Chinese have the derogatory branding as "celestials" long before science fiction literature is because China is never mentioned in the bible. Where did the Chinese come from? Outer space. Which is also why aliens in movies are portrayed to have mongoloid features. Ming the merciless from the planet Mongo...

Look at how many other things are left out of the bible. What was thought to be the "world" at the time is also the boundaries of the world in the bible. The Orient was the Middle East then. The kings of the east... they ain't talking about China or Japan or anyplace that is known as the Far East today. The past several hundred years was the only time China wasn't the biggest most prosperous nation on Earth since before the birth of Christ. It isn't mentioned once in the Bible.

hey if you guys are interested in references or interpretations on China in the Bible, you should check out and the author's writings on "THE."

Catholics certainly are not in the Christian evangelical groups, which are mostly southern Protestants. The Christian right wing in the US hardly represents the vast majority of the Christian people around the world, not by far.

For a long time I feel that its important to mention this, no matter how fringe this topic might be, because there are people who believed in all this, and plays a part of demonizing China in the media and in the people's mind.

To Marc,

There are different interpretations who the Anti-Christ is and what region he is supposed to come from.

Those who subscribe to Nostradamus or misinterpretations of such, might believe the Anti-Christ is an Islamic leader who gathers up all the Moslem countries in the world and rains nuclear missiles on everyone else. There is certainly a number of TV documentaries that showed this scenario. I gather there are many who follow this line.

The next line is that the US is the new Roman Empire. Many of its institutions tend to reflect the Roman character like the Senate and so are its armed forces. Like the Roman Empire, it symbolizes itself with the Eagle and calls itself a Republic. And then the Anti-Christ takes over the New Roman Empire with the aid of a false prophet, which some considered the US media.

Both views are unfortunate. The first demonizes Islamic nations and peoples. The second may be an inspiration for domestic terrorism, which was actually a greater threat (remember the Oklahoma bombings) before it was eclipsed by 9/11. The second is used to demonize the Federal Government by Christian fundamentalists, who call the Feds too secular, anti-religion and turning its back from God.

The third line is that European Union is the 10 nation federation that is led by the Anti-Christ. In fact, Hal Lindsey's book, the Late Great Planet Earth had a prediction that one day, Europe would be united and had a common currency. Considering the book was printed in the early seventies, this part coming true two decades later adds fuel to the prophetic believers.

The fourth line is that Russia, China and the entire SCO is the 10 nation federation led by the Anti-Christ, him being the Gog, Prince of Magog, in the Ezekiel 38 reference. Though many fundamentalists follow this line, The interpretation of the Late Great Planet Earth actually has the Kings of the East fighting the Magog army (Russia and its allies) and the Anti-Christ army (the 10 nations federation from the West).

So many interpretations, and yet collectively, is used to demonize the liberal US Federal government, Islamic nations, Russia and its allies, the EU and China. It drives the point that interpretation---its sheer abuse of it---can be used so many ways to point the finger at someone.

But behold, there might actually be a mention of China in the Bible that sounds good. This is the famous passage from Isaiah 49 and many Bible scholars consider the land or nation of Sinim here, as China (from the word Sino-).

Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Isa 49:9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that [are] in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures [shall be] in all high places.

Isa 49:10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

Isa 49:11 And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.

Isa 49:12 Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.

Isa 49:13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

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Text continues saying this:

“Can a woman forget
her nursing child,
And not have compassion
on the son of her womb?
Surely they may forget,
Yet I will not forget you.
See, I have inscribed you
on the palms of My hands;
Your walls are continually before Me.”
(Isaiah 49: 15-16)

A reference to the Great Walls of China?

Discussion here on the interpretation of Sinim as China.




By the way, AMace, we have to give credit to the ancient peoples that they may know more about the world during their day that what we think they do.

crobato said:

.

To Marc,

There are different interpretations who the Anti-Christ is and what region he is supposed to come from.

Those who subscribe to Nostradamus or misinterpretations of such, might believe the Anti-Christ is an Islamic leader who gathers up all the Moslem countries in the world and rains nuclear missiles on everyone else. There is certainly a number of TV documentaries that showed this scenario. I gather there are many who follow this line.

The next line is that the US is the new Roman Empire. Many of its institutions tend to reflect the Roman character like the Senate and so are its armed forces. Like the Roman Empire, it symbolizes itself with the Eagle and calls itself a Republic. And then the Anti-Christ takes over the New Roman Empire with the aid of a false prophet, which some considered the US media.

Both views are unfortunate. The first demonizes Islamic nations and peoples. The second may be an inspiration for domestic terrorism, which was actually a greater threat (remember the Oklahoma bombings) before it was eclipsed by 9/11. The second is used to demonize the Federal Government by Christian fundamentalists, who call the Feds too secular, anti-religion and turning its back from God.

The third line is that European Union is the 10 nation federation that is led by the Anti-Christ. In fact, Hal Lindsey's book, the Late Great Planet Earth had a prediction that one day, Europe would be united and had a common currency. Considering the book was printed in the early seventies, this part coming true two decades later adds fuel to the prophetic believers.

The fourth line is that Russia, China and the entire SCO is the 10 nation federation led by the Anti-Christ, him being the Gog, Prince of Magog, in the Ezekiel 38 reference. Though many fundamentalists follow this line, The interpretation of the Late Great Planet Earth actually has the Kings of the East fighting the Magog army (Russia and its allies) and the Anti-Christ army (the 10 nations federation from the West).

So many interpretations, and yet collectively, is used to demonize the liberal US Federal government, Islamic nations, Russia and its allies, the EU and China. It drives the point that interpretation---its sheer abuse of it---can be used so many ways to point the finger at someone.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up on the different lines. Your post does provide some 'structure' in this murky topic.

For myself, I've seen first hand how God & his spirit has moved and touched numerous people in Asia from Korea to China . The hunger for the word of God is incredible.