Russia Vs Georgia..a widening crisis!

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Finn McCool said:

There is a lesson in this for China. Don't attack a seperatist territory that has the explict backing of a major power!

Click to expand...

Finn, I think the actual perception is very different from what you stated. Georgia is a country backed by the West, particularly the United States, which has been lobbying for its inclusion into NATO. Russia's current hammering of Georgia reveals the state of weakness of the West. The perception is, even though Georgia may think its buddy-buddy with the US and even thought that the US would come to its aid, it is ultimately going to have to fight a war that it provoke.

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Of course the Russian operation has a large planned element. It would be negligent not to do contingency planning. But, as plans can only get you so far, the planned element is the initial reaction in Putin's absence, and his arrival means that now things will be flexible as the campaign goes on.

Of course the war is not about S Ossetia. It is about the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceylon pipeline and the great game for access to Caspian sea energy resources. Georgia is a vital piece of this chess board and it just opened itself to a "military solution" by the Russian side.

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

From -

17:05 - Abkhazian official have announced that the republic’s troops have entered the Gail district of Georgia.

15:45 - 76 Airborne Brigade of the Russian Army arrives in the conflict region - Russian military officials.

15:20 GMT – Prime Minister Putin arrives in Russia’s republic of North Ossetia to discuss aid for the refugees arriving from South Ossetia.

Click to expand...

August 9, 2008, 21:04 - Georgia resumes shelling the South Ossetian capital
The fighting in South Osstian capital, Tskhinvali, is continuing with Georgian troops once again entering the city. There are reports that Georgian Special Forces have been throwing grenades into basements where women and children are sheltering.

Georgian soldiers are also reportedly trying to take control of a road leading from Tskhinvali to the Russian republic of North Ossetia.

Click to expand...

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

More photos of the strife between Russia and Georgia.

blood stained flying helmet near a body of person claimed to be a Russian pilot killed when his plane was shot by Georgian forces in the conflict with Russia over the separatist province of South Ossetia, seen at an unknown location in Georgia, in this image made from television Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008. Georgia said it has shot down 10 Russian planes, including four brought down Saturday. Russia said two its planes were downed.

Click to expand...

Russian soldiers aboard an armored vehicle near Alagir , North Ossetia, on the road to the border of the Georgian breakaway region of South Ossetia on Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008. Russian news reports say that Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has arrived in a region that neighbors Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Click to expand...

Georgian soldiers evacuate their base after a Russian bombardment in Gori, 80 km (50 miles) from Tbilisi, August 9, 2008. Russia said it had driven Georgian forces from the capital of South Ossetia on Saturday as part of an operation to force Georgia to accept peace in its breakaway region.

Click to expand...

A line of empty Russian buses heads south near Alagir, North Ossetia, toward the Georgian breakaway region of South Ossetia to pick up refugees fleeing the fighting, or the wounded, on Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008. Russian news reports say that Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has arrived in a region that neighbors Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Click to expand...

Russian heavy armoured vehicle rumbles down the street in the Ardon Valley , Russia, heading towards the Georgian border and South Ossetia on Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008.

Click to expand...

Russian tanks and other armored vehicles at a temporary base at Mezur near the border with the Georgian breakaway region of South Ossetia on Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008. Russian news reports say that Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has arrived in a region that neighbors Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Click to expand...

Russian heavy armoured vehicles in the Ardon Valley , Russia, heading towards the Georgian border and South Ossetia on Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008.

Click to expand...

An injured Georgian woman shouts in the town of Gori, 80 km (50 miles) from Tbilisi, August 9, 2008.

Click to expand...

An injured Georgian woman stands next to her home after a bombardment in the town of Gori, 80 km (50 miles) from Tbilisi, August 9, 2008. A Russian warplane dropped a bomb on an apartment block in the Georgian town of Gori on Saturday, killing at least 5 people, a Reuters reporter said. The bomb hit the five-story building in Gori close to Georgia's embattled breakaway province of South Ossetia when Russian warplanes carried out a raid against military targets around the town.

Click to expand...

Soldiers run near a blazing apartment after a bombardment in the town of Gori, 80 km (50 miles) from Tbilisi, August 9, 2008. A Russian warplane dropped a bomb on an apartment block in the Georgian town of Gori on Saturday, killing at least 5 people, a Reuters reporter said. The bomb hit the five-story building in Gori close to Georgia's embattled breakaway province of South Ossetia when Russian warplanes carried out a raid against military targets around the town.

Click to expand...

Georgian soldiers are seen in the outskirts of the northern Georgian town of Gori, on Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008. Georgia launched a massive offensive to regain control over the breakaway province. Russia has close ties with the province and responded by sending in armed convoys. Georgia has accused Russia of bombing its towns, ports and air bases and has asked the international community to help end what it called Russian aggression.

Click to expand...

A Georgian soldier gestures while riding atop a tank in the northern Georgian town of Gori, on Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008.

Click to expand...

Georgian tanks ride in the northern Georgian town of Gori, on Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008. Georgia launched a massive offensive to regain control over the breakaway province.

Click to expand...

Smoke is seen over buildings after Russian bombardment in Gori, 80 km (50 miles) from Tbilisi, August 9, 2008. Russia said it had driven Georgian forces from the capital of South Ossetia on Saturday as part of an operation to force Georgia to accept peace in its breakaway region.

Click to expand...

Georgian reservists rest in central Gory 80 km (50 miles) from Tbilisi, August 9, 2008. Russian forces battled Georgian troops in a breakaway part of Georgia in intensified fighting that sparked alarm in the West and heated exchanges at the United Nations reminiscent of the Cold War.

Click to expand...

A Georgian soldier is seen atop an armored vehicle near the city of Tskhinvali, in the breakaway Georgian province of South Ossetia, on Friday, Aug. 8, 2008.

Click to expand...

A train with Georgian forces heads to the separatist province of South Ossetia lays at an unknown location in Georgia, in this image made from television Saturday, Aug. 9, 2008.

Click to expand...

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Displaying the corpse of enemy combatants is a violation of international law. The Georgians ought to be ashamed.

One key thing that no one is talking about: it is not in Russia's interest to annex South Ossetia, for it would give Georgia the greenlight to join NATO. South Ossetia is a string that can be used indefinitely to prevent Georgia's inclusion into NATO. Thus, Russia's military responses will be limited in this respect.

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

One Russian unit deployed near Tskhinvali had to change location quickly Saturday when Georgian shells started to land nearby.

A 19-year-old Russian conscript, a member of a tank crew, said his unit was supposed to take part in a military exercise in North Ossetia but was suddenly sent into South Ossetia. The soldier, who asked not be named because he wasn't allowed to speak to reporters, said that his tank accompanied a motorized infantry unit that was hit by Georgian shelling and suffered casualties. The tank was broken and the soldiers were trying to fix it on the edge of the woods

Click to expand...

This certainly proves what we've suspected, that Georgian arty and MLRS are their most deadly assets.

It is nearly impossible to come by reliable information on the progress of the ground campaign. All we know for sure about the most recent developments is that there is a major engagement taking place (or has taken place) in the vicinty of Gori, and that a second front is being opened in Abkhazia. That might just be so the Abkhaz can get the Kodori Gorge. But it might also indicate that the Russians intend to break through there.

An attack from Abkhazia would suggest a move in the direction of Porti which as I said earlier would be a tough target, it's protected by two natural river defence lines outside of the city and another river that forms its border. Any attack from the northern direction would have to cross the one bridge into the city on that side. Perhaps the Russians could attack further upriver and capture another bridge I didn' see. This is all just hypothetical.

The amount of reported Russian troops in Armenia and the apparent deployment of large numbers of airborne troops seems tells me that the Russians are going to keep moving. Those things signal an intent to continue the offensive in a big way.

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

FugitiveVisions said:

Displaying the corpse of enemy combatants is a violation of international law. The Georgians ought to be ashamed.

One key thing that no one is talking about: it is not in Russia's interest to annex South Ossetia, for it would give Georgia the greenlight to join NATO. South Ossetia is a string that can be used indefinitely to prevent Georgia's inclusion into NATO. Thus, Russia's military responses will be limited in this respect.

Click to expand...

It is a violation of international law but the picture is of an empty (and very bloody) flight helmet, not of a corpse. Very nasty looking pictures coming out of South Ossetia and Georgia though but it looks like escalation will just continue, especially if the VDV are deployed

BTW both sides are T-72Bs covered in ERA bricks, I can't really tell which is which right now, the same tanks rolling in from Russia look like the blown up tanks the Russians are saying are Georgian which in turn look like the wrecks the Georgians are claiming are Russian tanks

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Neutral Zone said:

3 Backfires hit with one lost?

Would the Georgians have anything capable of bringing one down?

Click to expand...

Yes, they have SA-11s which are more than capable of bringing down Backfires.

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Is Russia seriously using only T-72s right now? I was wondering why the Georgians were claiming so many tank kills. Any indication the Russians are or will be introducing some of their newer armor?

Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Vlad Plasmius said:

Is Russia seriously using only T-72s right now? I was wondering why the Georgians were claiming so many tank kills. Any indication the Russians are or will be introducing some of their newer armor?

Click to expand...

Yeah I was just wondering myself. How many T-90S have been inducted into the Russian armed forces? And if Backfires are being used, is there a possibility that the Tu-160 may also come in action as well as other Russian equipment?