JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

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alopes

Junior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

I wonder what makes JF-17 so more cheap than J-10?
What would be more easy to turn in a low observable, stealth, aircracft?
Jf-17 or J10?
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

I wonder what makes JF-17 so more cheap than J-10?
What would be more easy to turn in a low observable, stealth, aircracft?
Jf-17 or J10?

It has less capability all around, so it is cheaper by this virtue.
 

Cheetah

New Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

It has less capability all around, so it is cheaper by this virtue.

could u please shed some light on your comment less capable to what.

American spend 40million dollars to develop a pen that can write upside down Russian did it for 2 cents (they used a pencil)my point is simple just cause one isn't costing 100million dollars don't mean its just not worth it.

labor cost in Western countries could run up to 50/hr and obviously that will effect the end cost to sell.i doubt Chinese or Pakistani manufacturing place will have such a high cost of just labor alone.
most defense contractors are in private hands so making as much profit as possible also effects the price.if one was to keep all these factors in mind and then discus the item what it can or cant do.:nono:
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

I think FC-1 is cheaper than J-10 because a) it uses an 81 kN engine unlike J-10's 130 kN one, and b) because it is somewhat lighter in weight, though it's of the same size as a J-10.

Because of a less powerful engine, FC-1 can have lesser operational cost per hour and so is suited to be the 'drone' of an airforce. But for some unknown reason, PLAAF has not yet given a single order for it though PAF has declared it 'operational' and has begun it's assembly in Pakistan.

JF-17 has attracted 3 customers in less than a year. That is nothing compared to how long it took to attract customers for other fighters. The JF-17 is just getting started. There is HUGE demand in the world for low-cost fighters. And low-cost does not mean $40 million/piece.
Azerbaijan and Sudan have only expressed interest and are negotiating. They haven't placed confirmed orders yet.

As I said, those 7 year old figures of $10-15 million must have probably escalated now by atleast $10 million for the non-weaponised FC-1. A few million more can fetch a MiG-29, and so why would an airforce buy an FC-1 ?
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

could u please shed some light on your comment less capable to what.

American spend 40million dollars to develop a pen that can write upside down Russian did it for 2 cents (they used a pencil)my point is simple just cause one isn't costing 100million dollars don't mean its just not worth it.

labor cost in Western countries could run up to 50/hr and obviously that will effect the end cost to sell.i doubt Chinese or Pakistani manufacturing place will have such a high cost of just labor alone.
most defense contractors are in private hands so making as much profit as possible also effects the price.if one was to keep all these factors in mind and then discus the item what it can or cant do.:nono:

1. Compared to the J-10, FC-17 carries less weapons (has less hardpoints), is slightly slower, and has a shorter combat radius. Furthermore, the J-10 has a more advanced radar and electronic warfare system, which has more range, and better detection and lock on capabilities.

2. That example is a false example; pencils can not be used in space due to the fact that the lead can break and go flying, and in zero gravity, small stuff flying at a very high speed is dangerous.
 

Londo Molari

Junior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Yeah, the JF-17 is smaller than say the F-16 or J-10, has a smaller radar and engine. And the primary consideration in its design above all else was keeping costs low, rather than capabilities. Thats why its hella affordable.

Azerbaijan and Sudan have only expressed interest and are negotiating. They haven't placed confirmed orders yet.
So 3 countries have already purchased or entered into negotiations to purchase the aircraft in its first year. Like I said, thats nothing compared to long it takes other fighters to generate substantive interest.

As I said, those 7 year old figures of $10-15 million must have probably escalated now...
Well sure, if you assume away everything then of course, you are absolutely correct.

But I try to rely on actual information that has been released, and the JF-17 is $15 million a piece. Mig-29 simply cannot compete with that.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

I think you too are guessing and don't have latest figures. It's hard to believe that a transonic Hawk trainer costs nearly $10 million more than any FC-1 variant. That figure too is without weapons.

My estimate of a non-weaponised FC-1's cost is $25+ million. Add to that a plummeting dollar, and it will gradually approach $30 m.

Speaking of PAF, it doesn't have much choice after truncating their purchase of F-16 and plans to induct only a few J-10s (if at all). This is the only fighter that they have to boost their capabilities, and I agree they're trying very hard. From South African T Darters to Italian AESA radars, PAF wants it to be as lethal as possible.

the main avionics developer for J-10 said in an interview that each J-10 costs 200 million RMB. And JF-17 is believed to cost 1/2 of a J-10. You can believe what you want to believe, but that's how it is. Based on what China pays for J-10 and the expected export price, it seems like they put a 50% premium on the export at least.

could u please shed some light on your comment less capable to what.

American spend 40million dollars to develop a pen that can write upside down Russian did it for 2 cents (they used a pencil)my point is simple just cause one isn't costing 100million dollars don't mean its just not worth it.

labor cost in Western countries could run up to 50/hr and obviously that will effect the end cost to sell.i doubt Chinese or Pakistani manufacturing place will have such a high cost of just labor alone.
most defense contractors are in private hands so making as much profit as possible also effects the price.if one was to keep all these factors in mind and then discus the item what it can or cant do.
your argument doesn't apply here since the same factory designs and builds J-10 + JF-17. That's why I have mentioned the idea of China price for JF-17 and PAF price for JF-17.

In general, larger plane, more advanced avionics structure, more advanced FCS and more advanced materials used.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Mig-29 simply cannot compete with that.

Not exactly....

Those nations seeking a more capable aircraft will fork over the money for the MiG-29. The MiG-29 has more range, a more powerful radar, and can carry more weapons, not to mention the more advanced avionics that can be incorporated.

A more comparable comparison would be to compare the MiG-29 to the J-10.
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

the main avionics developer for J-10 said in an interview that each J-10 costs 200 million RMB. And JF-17 is believed to cost 1/2 of a J-10. You can believe what you want to believe, but that's how it is. Based on what China pays for J-10 and the expected export price, it seems like they put a 50% premium on the export at least.
Based on this and what you said earlier about J-7, it seems that PLAAF gets a highly subsidized price for J-10 and FC-1. But I'm talking about FC-1's market /export price, which cannot be lesser than small Hawk trainers.

so after the 50% premium which you say, an FC-1 will cost $23 million in the export market (without weapons). I doubt if it can compete against Fulcrums, that cost only a few million more.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Your price for Fulcrums must be old then. Remember Russia is running double digit inflation in a year, so you have to factor that from your old original quoted prices. That's why you're going to pay more for future MKIs and the aircraft carrier. I seriously seriously doubt that future modernized Fulcrums in the market will be cheap.
 
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