Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
With CSB on his way out in Taiwan the US (and France) should be more willing to sell arms.

Between the Rafale and the F-16, what would be the better choice?
With the Rafale you get an undoubtedly better air superiority fighter, able to tangle with and beat the best the PLAAF can throw at it. But it is expensive and adds a new fighter to Taiwan's inventory which complicates logistics. Also Taiwan would need to purchase Exocets with them in order to be AShm capable.

With the F-16 you have more uniformity in spare parts and logistical issues. F-16s are also cheaper and Taiwan would be able to purchase quite a few more of them for the same amount. But with that decreased price comes decreased air-to-air capability and the F-16, although upgraded, is still a 4th gen aircraft, so it is becoming obsolete.

I'm sure they would like to have both, a hi-lo mix but that isn't an option.
 

unknauthr

Junior Member
Rafale Hampered by Cost

Between the Rafale and the F-16, what would be the better choice?
With the Rafale you get an undoubtedly better air superiority fighter, able to tangle with and beat the best the PLAAF can throw at it. But it is expensive and adds a new fighter to Taiwan's inventory which complicates logistics.

I agree - the Rafale is clearly the superior all-around platform. My prediction, however, is that it will come down to a decision based on cost.

The Rafale has lost every international sales contest where it was in direct competition with an American contendor. It lost to the F-15 in Korea and Singapore, and it lost to the F-16 most recently in Morocco (in what was supposed to be a "done" deal). The only foreign buyer that France is likely to see right now is Libya - which is not being offered US-built warplanes as an option. I wouldn't expect Taiwan to be an exception to this trend.
 
D

Deleted member 675

Guest
Re: Rafale Hampered by Cost

The Rafale has lost every international sales contest where it was in direct competition with an American contendor. It lost to the F-15 in Korea and Singapore, and it lost to the F-16 most recently in Morocco (in what was supposed to be a "done" deal). The only foreign buyer that France is likely to see right now is Libya - which is not being offered US-built warplanes as an option. I wouldn't expect Taiwan to be an exception to this trend.

The thing is that Taiwan is in a unique situation. Although it can use the prospect of the US sale to its advantage in pushing the French to offer a better deal, the Rafale is something it can't get from the Americans at the moment.

Morocco went for the F-16 because it doesn't actually need something like the Rafale right now - so it could go for price. As for South Korea it had the option of the Strike Eagle, as well as other planes. If the Rafale had to face off against the Strike Eagle maybe it would lose, but it has a better chance against the F-16 as Taiwan won't have the opportunity to get another 4.5 generation plane for the foreseeable future.

So it comes down to price. If the French offer the Rafale as part of a reasonable deal, maybe with other sales attached to it, I think the Taiwanese would go for it. If they try to push Taiwan too far they would go with the F-16.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Re: Rafale Hampered by Cost

So it comes down to price. If the French offer the Rafale as part of a reasonable deal, maybe with other sales attached to it, I think the Taiwanese would go for it. If they try to push Taiwan too far they would go with the F-16.

This is very true. The Taiwanese would probably like to see an upgrade package for their Mirage 2000s. That might be a perk France could offer.

Also the Rafale is able to use Taiwan's sizeable stock of MICAs, and thus it is not subject to the lack of AMRAAMs that the F-16s face (Although they might have recieved a shipment that solved that issue, is that true?).
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
The Rafael is a fine plane, but with rising value of Euros, the unit cost is going to be pretty high. I'm not sure what the chance of France exporting new fighters to TW is, but have heard that they'd prefer to pay back the "scandal money" in goods and services instead of cash. Perhaps an upgrade program to ROCAF's Mirage 2000-5's to Mk.2 standard?

Most likely, we'd probably see more F-16 C/D's.
 

kliu0

Junior Member
But with the Taiwanese dollar currently at all time highs, and with boosted military budgets and the need for further modernization of the military, I think Taiwan would pick the Rafale. Its their only chance to get current generation planes that would have a greater chance of withstanding a PRC attack (if it occurs). The Rafale is not only superior with its long range, but also its weapons. Taiwan will need a fighter to strike back at military targets. And the Rafale seems like the most suitable choice if the price is acceptable.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
The exchange rate from Euros to NT was 1 : 31.x in 2002. Today it's 1 : 48. I think that roughly calculates to 55% decline in TW NT value vs. Euros since 2002? (someone please correct if I'm wrong)

Something that cost 1 billion Euros in 2002 = 31 billion NT.

Today the same item, assuming no increase in price, would cost $48 billion NT.

France still owes Taiwan some "scandal money", but it's not much compared to the cost of buying Rafale fighters.
 

kliu0

Junior Member
But its grown stronger due to the elections. You cant compare years of exchange rates. Because if Taiwan wants to purchase Rafale its in the near future not the past. Anyway the Taiwanese military probably wants the best fighter that they can purchase, I mean why bother with F-16s when (if) they could purchase Rafales. The US rejected their 5th generation fighter (F-35), and are still rejecting to sell the 4th gen fighter (F-16). Taiwan still has alot of money, these past 2 years they've been allocating more and more into the military budget. If they were given the choice between 4th gen and 4.5 gen, they'd most likely pick a fighter (Rafale) that will more likely match or outmatch those of the PRC's Su-30s and J-10s.
 

kliu0

Junior Member
Just heard that the US sent ICBM fuses instead of helicopter batteries. Thats kinda sad to hear that the US military is so sloppy. Hope Taiwan reverse engineered the fuses.
 

hallo84

New Member
Just heard that the US sent ICBM fuses instead of helicopter batteries. Thats kinda sad to hear that the US military is so sloppy. Hope Taiwan reverse engineered the fuses.

what for? This is 60s technology minute man fuse.

Heads are going to roll in DoD for sure but unless the underlying causes are addressed, I see much more of these incidents happening.

God knows how many more of these incidents have already happened and no one bothered to inform Washington.
 
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