Possible Turkish incursion into Iraq

Following a series of aerial attacks that have seriously disrupted the organization, bringing it to the brink of collapse, the ground operation was planned to be the final strike against the PKK, it said.

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Now THAT to me sounds like nonsense. More likely the air strikes have proven pointless. It does seem that the US would not allow such an operation now that Iraq is somewhat stabilized.

Roger604 said:

Now THAT to me sounds like nonsense. More likely the air strikes have proven pointless. It does seem that the US would not allow such an operation now that Iraq is somewhat stabilized.

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And what exactly do you mean the US won't allow such an operation? Considering the fact that Turkey is one out of the two countries in the region (the other being Kuwait) which lets the US resupply its forces in Iraq using its airspace, I doubt the US will have much say over anything. Above that, the security situation can easily be reversed with or without any Turkish invasion of northern Iraq. Already a major insurgent group is threatening to withdraw from the cease fire:



And with the Mehdi Army's cease fire to expire by the end of this month (no one knows if it will continue), the US will have more baggage on its hands to worry about a Turkish invasion...

Well there's been another incident on the border.

Kurdish troops surround Turks in worst confrontation yet in Iraq By Leila Fadel and Yasseen Taha, McClatchy Newspapers
Thu Feb 21, 7:31 PM ET

BAGHDAD — Iraqi Kurdish troops on Thursday encircled Turkish soldiers in northern Iraq and threatened to open fire in the most serious standoff between the two nation's forces since Turkey threatened late last year to go after guerrillas from the Kurdistan Workers Party sheltering in Iraq .

The standoff began when Turkish troops in tanks and armored vehicles left one of five bases they've had in Iraq since 1997 and moved to control two main roads in Dohuk province, Iraqi officials said.

Kurdish soldiers from the peshmerga militia, which is loyal to the Kurdish Regional Government, moved to stop them. For an hour and a half, the two sides faced off before the Turkish soldiers retreated to their base, which is about 27 miles northeast of the city of Dohuk. The peshmerga surrounded the base and remained there late Thursday.

The Turkish troop movement was accompanied by artillery and airstrikes that targeted mountain areas held by rebels from the Kurdistan Workers' Party , which is known by its initials as the PKK. A spokesman for the peshmerga, Jabar Yawar , said the shelling began at about 11 a.m. and continued past midnight. Two bridges were knocked out over the Great Zab River, he said.

"This is a matter of the sovereignty of Iraq and the unity of Iraq ," said Falah Bakir , the head of the foreign relations department of the regional government. "We hope that there will be no clashes— the Kurdistan Regional Government has done enough to show our goodwill to Turkey ."

Bakir said the regional government has tightened security at checkpoints, airports and hospitals to stop PKK movements, but that the Turkish military has continued its buildup. He called for the Iraqi central government and U.S. military to step in to stop what he called Turkey's "abnormal movements."

In Baghdad , Iraqi government officials held tense meetings with American civilian and military officials to stem the crisis in one of the only peaceful areas of Iraq .

"We have to do something," said a senior Iraqi official, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue. "We cannot keep quiet and keep digging our heads in the sand."

The growing tension between Turkey and Iraqi Kurdistan has wedged the United States between two allies. Turkey is a NATO member, and the Iraqi Kurds have been among the biggest supporters of the American presence in Iraq .

But the PKK, which has battled Turkey for decades for an autonomous Kurdish region in southern Turkey , also has broad support in northern Iraq , despite being labeled a terrorist organization by the United States .

There were no PKK casualties from Thursday's Turkish shelling, said Ahmed Dennis , a spokesman for the group.

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This is concerning because the soldiers confronting the Turkish Army units are not PKK. They are with the Kurdish Regional Government. If the Turkish Army opened fire on them or vice-versa it would end any semblance of official Kurdish neutrality.

I think it is related to Kosovo. Tit for tat.

Turkey's now invaded:

According to the wire news services (quoting Turkish and Iraqi government spokesmen), there has been heavy fighting and dozens of PKK fighters have been killed, along with 5 Turks. It seems the PKK was caught by surprise (as were we here at SDF) by the fact that this attack came in the dead of winter. A Turkish Army spokesman has said that they believe that many PKK fighters and leaders are fleeing south, which is troubling because the Turkish units quite possibly will follow them, and the farther south the Turkish go, the more likely it is that all of Kurdistan will oppose them.

A Turkish helicopter has been shot down, plus it seems like the PKK is resorting to pretty cruel tactics in order to inflict casualties on the Turks. They are planting booby traps under the bodies of their dead comrades. Wow, the PKK was definitely taken by surprise. But a winter offensive makes much sense. All major roads are blocked with snow, and this means the PKK are virtual sitting ducks with no mobility against the Turkish army. This can be a severe blow indeed to the PKK since they can't regroup or reorganize properly under these given circumstances.


Turkish helicopter down in Iraq

By SELCAN HACAOGLU, Associated Press Writer Sun Feb 24, 3:53 PM ET

CUKURCA, Turkey - A Turkish helicopter crashed in Iraq and eight soldiers were killed during a cross-border ground operation against Kurdish rebels, who planted booby traps on the bodies of their slain comrades, Turkey's military said Sunday.
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The guerrillas said they shot down a Turkish military helicopter near the Turkish-Iraqi border.

Turkey's military said technicians were inspecting the wreck to determine why the helicopter crashed near the border. It was not clear if any of the reported troop casualties were on board. Their deaths bring the Turkish toll since the start of the incursion Thursday to 15, the military said on its Web site.

Thirty-three rebels were killed in Sunday's fighting, bringing the rebel death toll since Thursday to 112, according to the armed forces.

The incursion is the first confirmed Turkish military ground operation in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003.

The rebels of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, are fighting for autonomy in predominantly Kurdish southeastern Turkey and have carried out attacks on Turkish targets from bases in the semiautonomous Kurdish region of northern Iraq. The conflict started in 1984 and has claimed as many as 40,000 lives.

Turkey has assured that the operation would be limited to attacks on rebels. The United States and European Union consider the PKK a terrorist group.

"It is only an operation geared to cleansing the terrorist camps," Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said Sunday in an address to the youth branch of his ruling party. "Our Iraqi brothers, friends and civilians should know that they will never be targeted by the armed forces."

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday while visiting Australia that it would take a broader approach to erode PKK support in northern Iraq.

"After a certain point people become inured to military attacks," he said, "and if you don't blend them with these kinds of nonmilitary initiatives, then at a certain point the military efforts become less and less effective."

Massoud Barzani, head of the regional Kurdish administration in northern Iraq, warned Turkey would face large-scale resistance if it targeted civilians in its incursion.

The Iraqi government said Saturday fewer than 1,000 Turkish troops had crossed the frontier. Turkish media reports put the number in the thousands.

The office of Iraqi Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr said Turkish forces should leave Iraq.

"We demand that the Turkish government withdraw its forces immediately from the Iraqi territory and rely on negotiations to solve this conflict," al-Sadr's political committee said in a statement.

Iran, which is fighting an Iraq-based group of Kurdish militants with PKK links, said it would maintain security measures on its border with northern Iraq.

The Turkish military said clashes with the rebels were taking place in four areas of northern Iraq, but did not specify any location.

"Terrorist hideouts have been effectively destroyed by warplanes, helicopter gunships and artillery," the military said.

It said advancing troops were destroying rebel shelters, logistic centers and ammunition. Retreating rebels were trying to gain time by setting up booby traps under the corpses of dead comrades or planting mines on escape routes, the military said.

The bodies of five of the 33 rebels killed Sunday had booby traps under them, the statement said.

Late Sunday, several military helicopters took off from a base in the hilltop town of Cukurca, flying with their lights off. Earlier, Turkish F-16 jets flew into northern Iraq. Armored personnel carriers transported troops, and four long-range guns were positioned at the Cukurca base, one of the main support centers for the Turkish operation.

crazyinsane105 said:

All major roads are blocked with snow

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Are you sure about this? This isn't exactly the Russian winter.

Well I've seen only photoes around that area and there indeed is snow (more than here at the moment). Also I imagine that norther Iraq isen't the worlds leading snowploughing and if you lack the basic tools to deal with it, then indeed the roads are blocked.

However with all my understandment of warfare and with common sense I don't see how this is a difficoulty to the PKK and advantage to the Turkhis troops. In fact it is quite the countary. Turkish army is a) the advancing player, b) far more mobilised than the PKK insurcents and therefore far more tied to the mobility factor in the succesion of their whole campaing. PKK in otherhand has the benefits of a) fighting in their own territory and b) as being insurcents, the reliance to mechanised units are rather nil.
This situation seems from these factors alone a textbook example of gurellian warfare and how things can go horribly wrong for the more "advanced" side.

Its impossible to invade the North part of Iraq ( so-called Kurdistan area ) because its all covered with mountains.Its the best place for guerilla movements.Turkey is looking for short time cleaning operations.