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crobato

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Did I mention before that i have a theory about the J-11As? Both J-11 and J-11B are confirmed names, and there should be a J-11A.

The J-11As are not built from airframe kits like the J-11, and are not part of the 105 kits imported. These are airframes that are completely built in China, but their engines and electronics are still imported from Russia. The program is analogous to the 054 FFG, what is essentially a platform proving ground, and in order to minimize variables, the engines and equipment have to be exactly the same as the Su-27s and J-11s. In this way, you can validate and compare the Chinese airframe to the Russian made ones, and detect any variances in performance. There was an interesting report I read some time ago, that indeed there was variances, and that the Russian airframe was slightly faster. So they have to go back and work on the airframe till they got it right.

The J-11As were also sent to the Su-27 and J-11 regiments to the PLAAF to be operationally evaluated alongside the regular planes. They are identified by having a darker body tone than the regular planes.

I do believe that the J-11As, even though currently equipped with Russian engines and radars, may already have the provisions in their airframe to support the J-11B upgrades. The J-11As are going to be prime candidates for any upgrade, ahead of the regular J-11s, which may take a little more working around the Russian sourced airframe.

Its not clear if the PLAAF will upgrade all the J-11s and Su-27s, and in my opinion, they may leave the older Su-27s and all the UBKs alone.
 

tphuang

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a little bit on the J-11B project I think, posted on AVIC1. I think it basically said the J-11B project took 8 years to achieve IOC. Don't have time to translate now and didn't read the article that carefully, so I will just leave it as a source.
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放眼祖国的万里蓝天,中国航空人自主研制的第三代战机振翅高飞,将航空报国、追求第一的崇高理念,化作铸蓝天利剑、扬中华国威的惊天之举。

承担着重点型号设计、研制、试飞任务的中国一航沈阳飞机设计研究所、沈阳飞机工业(集团)公司、飞行试验研究院的全体参研人员与相关配套服务的兄弟厂所整合为一支团结一致、驰骋蓝天的无敌团队,用“激情进取、志在超越”的一航精神,谱写了一曲响彻云霄的时代壮歌。奋战在航空工业战线上的共产党员们,用开拓奋进、争创一流的工作业绩,用勇往直前、百折不回的坚定信念,用为祖国争气、为党旗争辉的实际行动,展示着新时期共产党员冲锋在前的先进性和时代风采。那些感人肺腑的故事啊,篇篇都是用激情和热血书写的深情礼赞!

重点型号的研制任务是党中央、国务院和中央军委的重大决策,是打赢未来高科技条件下局部战争的重点型号,是党和国家赋予我们的崇高历史使命,也是我们中国一航的广大共产党员践行“三个代表”重要思想,实现“航空报国、追求第一”崇高理念的具体行动。

丰碑无瑕垂青史,长空有字鹰挥毫。肩负祖国重托的全体参研人员,没有辜负党和人民的期望,我们用重点型号研制的一个又一个胜利,为鲜红的党旗增添了辉煌的风采!

第一章 先 行

型号研制设计先行。

作为重点型号工程的总体设计单位,中国一航沈阳飞机设计研究所承担着特殊的责任和使命。党政领导班子始终把研制新型战机作为一项重大的政治任务来抓。

重点型号工程任务之重、时间之紧、难度之大前所未有。要在5、6年内完成常规需要8到10年的研制任务,要把研制水平从二代提升到三代,其难度是可想而知的。
压力催人奋进,压力催生强烈的责任感和使命感。作为新中国成立的第一个飞机设计研究所,作为研制出我国第一架歼击机的歼击机研究基地,中国一航沈阳飞机设计研究所再一次勇敢地承担起了研制重点型号的责任。在“坚决摆脱对外依赖,坚持自主研制生产第三代重型歼击机,实现强国强军伟大战略目标”的铮铮誓言中,全力以赴地投入到了重点型号研制的工作中。

善打硬仗、能打胜仗的全体员工,在所党委的正确领导下,在党员的带动下,奋力前行,埋头苦干。他们以航空报国为歌,与志在超越同行。

这是一次艰难的先行,一次执著的先行,一次激情的先行,这更是一次超越的先行。

重点型号研制,就像一块巨大的磁铁,吸引每一个人释放全部的力量和能量。“老航空”意气风发,“小字辈”摩拳擦掌。它对工程院院士、时任总设计师的李明而言,更是一种不同寻常的别样情怀。这位年届六旬的儒雅长者,这位有着40年党龄的老共产党员,一想到在自己的有生之年,还能为重点型号尽一份绵薄之力,心中就源源不断地涌起一股难以抑制的拼搏激情。他大胆启用并精心培育青年科技人员,镇定自若、胸有成竹地率领一支精兵强将的英勇团队,向型号工程发起了有力的冲锋,悄然奏响型号工程的序曲!

咬定型号不放松。提前启动前期论证和摸透工作。经过三年六轮艰辛的合作谈判,以李明为核心的谈判组成员最终赢得了谈判的胜利。来之不易的胜利为高层领导的谈判决策提供了可靠的技术依据,为下一步的技术合作扫清了障碍。

所长、总设计师孙聪英年负重,使命在肩。重点型号研制千头万绪,难乎其难,这不但没有动摇青年少帅的必胜信念,更激起他激情进取的一腔热血和志在超越的聪明睿智。

孙聪把行政领导和技术领导集于一身的角色演绎得淋漓尽致。他科学谋划,精心组织,周密安排,用全新的工作理念指导型号研制,用观念的创新推动型号研制,提出向管理要效率。他倡导并提出“全过程为生产服务,全方位为用户服务”的两全服务理念,使服务理念有了质的飞跃,深受生产单位和部队用户的好评。

一位生产一线的老员工,高兴地对党委书记李燕说:“我得当着你这书记表扬一下设计员,重点型号是厂所配合最好的一次”。沈飞领导深有感触地说:“跟产队及时处理技术问题为生产赢得了时间,为保证进度创造了条件,我们能按节点完成任务,你们功不可没!”。

以孙聪为首的型号总师系统打破常规,以志在超越的胆识和勇气,毅然决然地提出调整01架飞机的首飞状态,换装新研综合航电系统开展先行试飞。这一意见得到上级机关的认可,保障了首飞节点,为新研系统在成熟平台上试飞赢取了时间。

“首战用我,用我必胜”!共产党员充分发挥先锋模范作用,用“四个高于”的标准严格要求自己,自觉做到“职业道德高于普通群众、创新能力高于普通群众、技术水平高于普通群众、工作业绩高于普通群众”,全所形成了学标杆、争先进、比贡献、做表率的良好风气。共产党员成为攻坚战场的主角,一个个响亮的名字,一段段感人的故事铭刻在大家的心中。

“这个团队可以没有我,但如果离开这个团队,我将一事无成。”这是共产党员、沈阳市劳动模范、副总设计师季晓光的内心独白。航电系统结构复杂,自动化程度高,技术风险大,对重点型号研制具有决定性的意义。作为该系统总师,他十分清楚自己承担的工作有多重要。为加快研制进度,减少空中试飞架次,最大限度地对系统设计进行全方位验证,季晓光大胆创新,组织专业人员仅用7个月就研制了一套由总线测试系统、飞行仿真系统、指挥引导仿真系统和视景系统组成的国内一流的试验环境。完备的测试系统可以对数据总线几千个数据实时监测、纪录,能够快速、准确地查出航电系统和成品的故障,全面提高了试验技术水平和试验效率。

为了重点型号,季晓光的闲暇时间都被工作填得满满的。在综合航电试验室,在沈飞公司试验现场,他一个个环节把关,一次次课题攻关,不漏过一个疑点,不放过一个部件。首飞前的70多个日日夜夜几乎都是在试验现场度过的,没有时间的概念,更没有休息的安排。“那段时间有个明显的感觉就是不知道今天是星期几。”一场惊心动魄的战斗结束后,他的体重一下子减轻了10多斤。

共产党员、部长助理董世良,一位一丝不苟、锐意创新的劳动模范。在重点型号立项之初,他主动请缨,带领一支年轻的攻关队伍,投入到数字化供电管理系统的研制中。这是一个全新的领域,国内没有技术应用的先例,国外没有任何可以借鉴的现成经验,一连串的困难、挑战摆在了他的面前。他横下一条心:迎难而上,拼命学习,刻苦攻关。随着项目的逐渐展开,技术风险越来越大,承受巨大精神压力的他,全然不顾,毫不退缩,没有被困难所压倒。在他的带领下,专业技术人员博采众长,集思广益,终于制定了一套全新的供电系统设计方案,实现了供电系统的数字化、智能化管理,达到了国内供电系统领先水平!项目成功了,永不停歇的他又挑起了新的重任。

重点型号成功的背后,蕴含了许多深深动人的情怀,跳动着许多火热的赤子之心。虽然承受着生离死别的沉重打击,忍受着痛苦煎熬的感情折磨,可对待工作却没有一丝一毫的放松。共产党员、高级工程师刘永生的母亲病危了,老人最大的愿望就是跟远在千里之外唯一的儿子见上一面。想到自己承担的工作正处在关键阶段,面对母亲生命的最后呼唤,他强忍悲伤,毅然咬牙留在现场。当他在领导的一再催促下赶回老家时,面对白发苍苍的父亲,面对阴阳两隔的母亲的遗像,他泪如雨下,失声痛哭……

在航电系统、电源系统、环控系统、机上地面几大试验中,党员带头献工57600余小时,解决关键性难题15个。领导干部深有体会地说:“共产党员是名副其实的骨干力量,哪里有技术难关,哪里有加班加点,哪里就有党员干部在,就有党员在。”普通群众啧啧赞叹:“党员干在前,学在前,关键时刻冲在前,利益、荣誉让在前,真是好样的。”

在共产党员的带领下,面对接踵而来的技术难关和严峻挑战,广大职工上下一心,挑灯夜战。烈日炎炎的正午,有他们奔波忙碌的急促脚步;月黑风高的暗夜,有他们风雪夜归人的不倦身影。争分夺秒的老同志,怀揣着大大小小的药瓶,风风火火地奔赴千里之外的试验现场;大显身手的年轻人,结婚的前一天才风尘仆仆地踏上回家的列车。他们把对亲人的深情化作对航空的爱恋,把对亲人的牵挂化作对事业的追求。“一辈子能赶上一次重点型号研制,是我们的幸运,舍小家为大家,再苦再累,值!”掷地有声的语言,道出了全体职工的无怨无悔和不懈追求。

心怀浓浓的爱国之情,肩负切切的报国之志。没有谁能忘记那奋力拼搏的一桩桩,一幕幕……2004年9月28日——中国传统的中秋佳节,人们都沉浸在阖家团圆的欢乐之中。这一天,在地处西北的中国飞机强度研究所静力试验现场,一场扣人心弦的全机静力试验正在紧张地进行。这是重点型号飞机静力试验中最重要的一项,也是保证首飞和投产决策的重要技术依据。在现场的20余名中国一航沈阳飞机设计研究所参试人员,神色凝重,屏住呼吸,全神贯注地谛听现场指挥那清晰有力的口令:“70%,79%,82%,94%,97%,98%,99%…”仿佛有一个世纪那么漫长,“加载100%,成功”!

100多个日日夜夜的艰苦鏖战终于迎来了试验的成功,长久以来,一直积郁在内心的压力在刹那间得到释放,热烈的掌声,紧紧的拥抱,喜极而泣……为了这一刻,他们奉献了多少心血,割舍了多少亲情,失去了多少团圆,牺牲了多少天伦之乐,无从计算,无法衡量。雀跃欢呼中伴随着他们含泪的微笑,泪光闪闪的笑容里饱含着他们对航空事业的无尽追求,对重点型号的无私奉献,对至爱亲人的无限愧疚。

东风过处尽芳菲。

从艰难起步到成功首飞,中国一航沈阳飞机设计研究所的党员干部职工为之呕心沥血,为之艰苦奋斗,他们勇敢地挑战多项国家级技术难题,圆满顺利地完成了飞机研制的阶段性任务,取得了重大科研成果:

首开行业之先河,研制开发了先进、实用的航电仿真支持环境,将作战环境设置、指挥引导、载机和目标机动态飞行仿真、视景、传感器同步激励、系统在线测试构成完整闭环,有效缩短了系统联试周期,降低了试飞费用,加快了研制进度;全新设计研制的三代机综合航电系统居于国内领先,三位一体的PD雷达、光电雷达、头盔瞄准系统协同工作,大大提高了超视距空战能力。

锤炼了一支具有三代机实践经验的年轻的飞机设计、科研管理队伍,培养了一批志存高远、出类拔萃的专业技术带头人,学习型、创新型、发展型的青年领军人物脱颖而出,他们在航空报国的舞台上大显身手,施展才华。

2004年底,总装、空装领导来所视察时,对重点型号研制工作给予了高度评价,一连用了三个好:充分发挥了主机场所牵头抓总的作用,任务完成得好,部队用户反映好,兄弟单位反映好。

携春秋,走冬夏。

敢引大风向无极!

激情进取、志在超越的领导班子已经绘就了光明的发展愿景:保持飞机设计综合实力国内领先,引导我国战斗机的技术进步和产业展。

承载着昔日的光荣和梦想,站在新的起点上,中国一航沈阳飞机设计研究所蓄势待发,跃向更高的目标!
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Google translated

Looking to the vast blue sky of the motherland, the Chinese aviation own developed by the third-generation fighter wings and fly, aviation country, pursuit of the noble idea of the first, cast into blue days sword, Paul Tang, the Chinese Yang amazing act. Assume key model design, development, test a mandate of the Chinese aviation Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute, Shenyang Aircraft Industry (Group) Corporation, Flight Test Research Institute of all those involved in research with relevant supporting services brothers plant for a solidarity integration, sail to the sky invincible team, "Passion ahead, Kwong beyond" a spirit of freedom, composed a resounding an era epic. Worked in the aviation industry in front of party members with forging ahead and create a flow of the performance, with courage, resilient firm belief in the use of the blame for the actual Zheng - flag action display to the new era Communist Party members charged at the advanced age and charisma. Those moving stories ah, being with passion and enthusiasm to write affectionate praise! Focus on the mission to develop models of the CPC Central Committee, the State Council and CMC's major policy decisions, is winning future high-tech local wars under the conditions of the key models of the party and the country have given us the lofty historic mission China is also a voyage of the majority of party members to practice the "Three Represents" ideology that the "aviation report, pursuit of the first "lofty ideas of concrete action. Monument interest in the history of the sun, the sky is the word eagle paint. Shouldering the great trust of the motherland all those involved in research, and the party did not live up to people's expectations We focus on models with the development of another in a victory for the red flag added a brilliant style! The first chapter ahead in developing the design first. As a key project design unit, a flight Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute bears a special responsibility and mission. Party leadership groups always put the development of new types of fighters as a major political task. Key engineering task is heavy and time to bear difficult it is unprecedented. In five or six years to complete the conventional take eight to 10 years of research task, make development level from the second generation to third-generation upgrade, difficulty can be imagined. Inspirational pressure, the pressure hastened strong sense of responsibility and mission. As the founding of New China's first aircraft designed Institute, as a developed China's first fighter jet fighters in the research base AVIC I Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute again to courageously shoulder to the development of key responsibilities. 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" Shen Fei leadership, said with deep feeling : "The production team with the timely processing technology for the production won the time, To ensure the creation of conditions for progress, I will be able to complete the task by node, you contributed! . " SUN led to the Model division total system broke convention to mark beyond the courage and boldness, progressed to revise the 01 aircraft's maiden flight status, new research equipment for integrated avionics system in first test flight. This view was endorsed by the higher authorities to protect the maiden flight nodes, new research system to a mature platform for the flight test on winning the time. "Using me in the first battle, using me to win!" Party members to play a pioneering and exemplary role, "four more than the" strict demands on the standards themselves, consciously achieve the "professional ethics than ordinary people, the ability to innovate than ordinary people, technical level higher than ordinary people performance than ordinary people, "the entire school formed a lever, vying to be advanced, contributions, and set examples of good practice. Party members become the protagonists battle field, a loud name of a moving story etched in everyone's minds. "This team may not be me, but if this team left, I will accomplish nothing. "This is a party member, Shenyang City model, deputy chief designer of the quarter Xiaoguang inner monologues. Avionics system is complex and a high degree of automation, technology risks, focus on research and development is of decisive significance. The system as a chief designer, he is very aware of their commitment to the importance of the work. To accelerate the development of progress, reducing air flight test sorties, to the maximum on the system design for all-round test CICA quarter bold innovation, professional organizations just seven months to develop a test system by bus, flight simulation systems, Simulation command and guidance system and the visual system consisting of first-rate test environments. Comprehensive test system for data bus can be thousands of real-time data monitoring, record, capable of rapid, accurately identify avionics system faults and finished the comprehensive test technology to improve the level and efficiency of the pilot. To key models quarter Xiaoguang leisure time are adorned with the work of reclamation. Integrated Avionics in the laboratory, the company Fei Shen testing site, a session he checked one tackling, pass undetected without a doubt, a spare parts. The maiden flight before more than 70 days and nights are almost at the test site spent no time concept, no arrangements for the rest. "During that period of time there is the feeling that obviously do not know if this is the week. "A breathtaking end of the battle, He immediately reduce the weight of 10 tie. Party members and Assistant Dong-liang, a meticulous and innovation to the model. Key establishment in the beginning, he joined voluntarily, and lead a young team in the research, Digital input to the power supply management system developed. This is a brand new field, there are not any precedent for the application of technology, not any outside can draw on the experience available, A series of difficulties, challenges in his face. He summon up the resolve : rose to the challenge and went all out to study diligently brainstorming. As the project unfolded, technical risks growing, under enormous psychological pressure, he completely ignored, not flinch, not overwhelmed by difficulties. Under his leadership, professional and technical personnel from all the essentials of brainstorming, and finally developed a new design of the power supply system, realize the power supply system of digital and intelligent management to achieve the domestic supply system leading level! Success of the project, non-stop he stirred up a new task. The key behind the success contains many deeply touching sentiment, beating many fiery sake. Although suffered a heavy blow hovered between life and death, endured the pain, suffering and emotional torment, can be treated but not an iota of work to relax. Members of the Communist Party, Liu Yongsheng, senior engineer of the mother was dying. elderly greatest wish is far from thousands of miles away in the only son remaining years. Expect to undertake the work is at a crucial stage, in the face of the mother's life the last call, he back sadness, took the bullet stayed at the scene. When he was in the leadership of repeated pleas back home, in the face of the white-haired father, in the face of Yin Yang separated by two mothers to the United Nations He lost, choked with tears ... navigation system, power systems, environmental control systems, aircraft ground several major test, Xian party members take the lead in more than 57,600 hours of work to solve critical problems 15. Leading cadres own experience, said : "Party members are truly the backbone, where there were technical difficulties, Where overtime, where Party members and cadres in, some party members. "ordinary people wonder exclaim : "the former party cadres, the former school, the key moment -- first, interests and honor for the former. This is really kind of good. "Under the leadership of Communist Party members, face a flood of technical difficulties and tough challenges. the vast majority of workers of one mind, late in the night. The scorching sun of noon, they run around a busy rapid pace; On the dark of night-time. Meaning they are tireless presence. The same thing veteran comrades, carries a large and small medicine bottle, the USSR to leave thousands of miles of the test site. Informed young married just one day before arrived home to set foot on the train. They relatives into the deep love of aviation, the relatives cared about into pursuit of a cause. "I can catch up with a focus on model development, we are fortunate, minor home for, will he, value! "The sound of language and meaning of all workers without complaint and unremitting pursuit. Harbor a deep sense of patriotic feeling, shoulder slice of the country at all. No one can forget that struggled valiantly in a pile, the audience ... September 28, 2004 -- the traditional Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival, people are immersed in the joy of a family reunion among. On this day, located in the Northwest Institute of the Chinese plane intensity static test site, A gripping account of the whole plane static test is being conducted. This is a key models of aircraft static test the most important one, and also the first flight operation of the important decision-making based on technology. On the scene more than 20 flights a China Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute involved in the tests, very dignified, with bated breath, concentrate listen attentively to the scene to direct it clear strong Password : "70%,79%,82%,94%. 97%,98%,99% ... "as if a century so long," 100% load successfully. " More than 100 days and nights of hard won a fierce test of the success of, for a long time, had depression in the inner pressure of the instant release, in a warm, tightly hugged, and cried ... To this moment, a number of them dedicated efforts, the number of family leave, the number of lost families and sacrifice in the number of family happiness, no, impossible to measure. Delighted cheers of them were accompanied by tears of a smile tears sparkling smile Lane to stem air endless pursuit of the cause of the key models of selfless dedication, loved family members of the infinite guilt. Dongfeng Fangfeiyuan do too Department. From a difficult start to a successful maiden flight, a flight Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute of Party members and cadres of workers it is born working so hard, they bravely challenge national-level technical problems, successfully completed the smooth development of the aircraft's interim mission, made significant achievements : the first industry firsts Development of advanced and practical support avionics simulation environment, the environment will be set up operations, command and guidance, and the target set for dynamic flight simulation, visual, sensor synchronization of inspiration and online systems provide a complete closed-loop testing, Effective reduction of the system the test cycle, reduce the flight cost and accelerate the progress of research and development; new design and development of three generations of aircraft integrated avionics system residing in the domestic lead Trinity PD radar and optical radar, helmet aiming system for collaborative work, which has greatly enhanced the BVRAC capacity. Tempered the one with three generations of practical experience for young aircraft design, the management of scientific research and training a number of austere life, outstanding professional skills with chiefs, learning, innovation, growth-oriented youth leader to come to the fore, They air on the stage of the country to succeed and display their talents. By the end of 2004, assembly, installation space which led to inspections, the focus of research and development work of the highly praised, spent three consecutive good : giving full play to the host sites is in overall charge of the role, tasks completed well, as well as reflect the forces users, brothers reflect good. Portability of spring and autumn take Dongxia. Dare cited large wind limitless! Passion ahead, beyond-the leading body has been painted a bright vision of development : aircraft design strength of domestic lead, guide our fighters, technological progress and industrial development. Carrying the glorious past and dreams of standing at a new starting point, a Chinese aviation Shenyang Aircraft Design Research Institute poised to take off toward higher targets
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Its definitely a coming out of the woodwork article, and one can take it as formal sign of the J-11B's release.

This statement, "In five or six years to complete the conventional take eight to 10 years of research task, make development level from the second generation to third-generation upgrade, difficulty can be imagined"---clearly points to its inception about 6 years ago. The project was indeed started around 2001, as indicated by the Su-27 model in Shenyang's corporate office with the marker "2001". The Russians believed that the Chinese would take at least 10 years to finish such a project, but it took only 6.
 

Kilo636

Banned Idiot
Its definitely a coming out of the woodwork article, and one can take it as formal sign of the J-11B's release.

This statement, "In five or six years to complete the conventional take eight to 10 years of research task, make development level from the second generation to third-generation upgrade, difficulty can be imagined"---clearly points to its inception about 6 years ago. The project was indeed started around 2001, as indicated by the Su-27 model in Shenyang's corporate office with the marker "2001". The Russians believed that the Chinese would take at least 10 years to finish such a project, but it took only 6.



The Russian wouldn't even believe Chinese will suceed in the first place. They wishfully think Chinese will rely Su-27 all the way on them. It was also a massive blunder by the Yeltsin adminstrative that time for allowing Chinese to RE whole Su-27 except engines!
 
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crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
I won't say its a blunder. China paid a very high price, around 2 billion, for an obsolete jet. The airframe is still good, but the avionics are not even in the same class as those in the West at that period. Though the HMS, WOBS missile and the IRST are still brilliant ideas.

But this deal is decisive in the sense that it placed Sukhoi ahead of MiG. Sukhoi remained in the shadow of MiG throughout and right to the end of the Soviet era. But this deal, along with the MKI deal, gave Sukhoi vital funds to continue development of the Flanker while MiG is left in the dust. Only when MiG finally had some upgrade projects for the MiG-29 were they able to move ahead with their development. But even now, in the post SU era, Sukhoi has cemented its place as the top among the Russian aviation firms.
 

Kilo636

Banned Idiot
I won't say its a blunder. China paid a very high price, around 2 billion, for an obsolete jet. The airframe is still good, but the avionics are not even in the same class as those in the West at that period. Though the HMS, WOBS missile and the IRST are still brilliant ideas.

But this deal is decisive in the sense that it placed Sukhoi ahead of MiG. Sukhoi remained in the shadow of MiG throughout and right to the end of the Soviet era. But this deal, along with the MKI deal, gave Sukhoi vital funds to continue development of the Flanker while MiG is left in the dust. Only when MiG finally had some upgrade projects for the MiG-29 were they able to move ahead with their development. But even now, in the post SU era, Sukhoi has cemented its place as the top among the Russian aviation firms.

I second that. Su-27 series already prove to be a outstanding design. Great manuorve and long leg and great payload.. Even without the license built thing comes in. It will still be the most sought after plane by other nation than Mig-29
 

Leeda

New Member
Registered Member
What is difference b/w an Indian su-30 MKI and Chinese Su-30 MKK.

Because they have gone as far as to claim their MKI to be far better than F-15E's. If true what's so special in MKI and why China is not that happy with it's MKK that it is :confused already looking for better optios?????????? :confused:
 
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