North Korean H Bomb Test - A cynical view

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Read my other posts- they exploded a nuclear device, and plutonium traces were detected by US intel. aircraft.
I agree, the US wants to free 27K soldiers/airman stationed in ROK for use in the CENTCOM AOR.
 

Ryz05

Junior Member
I've never heard of them exploding a hydrogen bomb. Such large explosion was not recorded. Many suspect it's a neutron bomb - high radiation, less powerful explosion. What do you mean by the last sentence?
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Whatever it was, it was a real nuke, even if the output was below normal of planned one.
If the US gets NK situation under control, there will be no need for keeping large numbers of American troops in ROK (and Japan, for that matter). The strain on the Army & Marines would be a lot less had those 27K personnel been available in other theaters.
 

Ryz05

Junior Member
Whatever it was, it was a real nuke, even if the output was below normal of planned one.
If the US gets NK situation under control, there will be no need for keeping large numbers of American troops in ROK (and Japan, for that matter). The strain on the Army & Marines would be a lot less had those 27K personnel been available in other theaters.

You seem to be obssessed about North Korea having a nuke. In any case, the US keeps its troops in ROK and Japan since Korean War and WWII. It's there to keep the balance against China. It's not about strain or anything else, it's about necessity. US doesn't care about North Korea so much, and it stations its troops there just like it has for Europe and Australia.
 
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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
to keep the balance against China
- No, their main purpose is against the resurgence of Japan-Korea antagonism; the ROK leadership will not permit the use of their territory against the PRC, unless the latter attacks them 1st. Before the '03 invasion of Iraq, many US soldiers and armored vehicles were shipped to Kuwait- apparently they were more needed there, as well as
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ROK soldiers.
Approximately 3,600 troops from the 2d Infantry Division's 2d Brigade in Korea have been deployed to Iraq to provide support to Operation Iraqi Freedom. The move represented the first time in the 50 years of U.S. military presence in Korea that troops stationed there were moved to another operational area. The soldiers will return to the United States following their tour in Iraq.
In preparation for the move, transporters of the Military Surface Deployment and Distribution Command's 837th Transportation Battalion in Pusan, Korea, loaded 1,700 pieces of brigade equipment onto two Military Sealift Command (MSC) vessels, ..
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"We've deployed units of the Old Guard!" he said, referring to the first-ever deployment of the ceremonial guard from Fort Myer, when a company was dispatched to Djibouti last year. "We've reached up inside of Alaska and grabbed the forces up there," he said. "Korea! Who would have ever thought that we would have deployed a combat formation?" he said, referring to a brigade sent from South Korea to Iraq.
Two years ago, the Army released 2,500 recruiters so they could ship out with tactical units, officials say. The Marines also sent scores fewer people to recruiting school because they were needed for military operations.
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update-
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The frequent US/ROK military exercises provide convinient excuse to stop cooperating, if nothing else!
 
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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
CIA chief says NKorea not nuclear power: report
By Agence France-Presse

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Mar 28, 2007

Central Intelligence Agency director Michael Hayden has said the United States does not recognise North Korea as a nuclear power because its first atomic test last October was a failure, a report said Wednesday.

The US position was made clear when Hayden met South Korean Defence Minister Kim Jang-Soo on Tuesday, the JoongAng Ilbo newspaper said.

"The United States does not recognise North Korea as a nuclear power, because its nuclear test last year was a failure," Hayden was quoted by a South Korean defence source as telling Kim.

The source also said Hayden stressed the importance of exchanging intelligence on North Korea between Seoul and Washington.

"The United States has a large amount of intelligence on North Korea and South Korea has many experts who understand well North Korean sentiments and culture," Hayden was quoted as saying.

"US-South Korean intelligence exchange is crucial to analyse North Korea's decisions."

The defence ministry confirmed the Hayden-Kim meeting but refused to comment on what was discussed. The US embassy had no comment on the CIA chief's visit.

US officials said last October that air samples had confirmed a nuclear test but that the explosion yield was less than one kiloton. South Korean officials also said they believe the test was only a partial success.

Hayden arrived Monday for a three-day visit, Yonhap news agency said, and met top intelligence officials to share information on North Korea's nuclear activities.

He arrived from Tokyo on Monday and was scheduled to leave for Beijing on Wednesday, it said.

Six-party talks on scrapping the North's nuclear programme have been underway since 2003. They group the United States, China, the two Koreas, Russia and Japan.

Under a February 13 agreement the North should should shut down and seal its plutonium-producing Yongbyon reactor and other plants by April 14 in exchange for energy aid.

This will give them incentive for more tests- to "negotiate from the position of strength", as US was saying during talks with the USSR!

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The end of a long confrontation?
By Charles Scanlon
BBC News, Seoul

US administrations have a tendency to start from scratch in their dealings with North Korea - and then relearn, step by step, the tortuous lessons taught to their predecessors.
Prominent members of US President George W Bush's administration make no secret of their contempt for a previous nuclear deal signed by the Clinton administration with North Korea in 1994.
Now, after years of confrontation, they have signed up to something that looks suspiciously similar - a nuclear freeze in return for economic and diplomatic incentives.
The difference is that North Korea now claims to be a nuclear power, having used the period of hostility to test a nuclear device and build a small arsenal of weapons.
The US negotiator, Christopher Hill, says the new agreement is just a first step.
Strategic decision
The aim is still the full dismantlement of all North Korea's nuclear capabilities, although he concedes there is still a long way to go.
But analysts say US policy looks increasingly like a containment exercise - an attempt to limit the damage and restrict the expansion of the North's existing capabilities.
"After years of mistakes the United States has decided to stop digging a hole for itself," says Peter Beck, North-East Asia Director of the International Crisis group.
"The administration has made a strategic decision to go after Iran and to go soft on North Korea," he said.
After first ruling out rewards for "bad behaviour", the US has now signed up to a deal that will see substantial incentives for a state Mr Bush once consigned to his Axis of Evil.
Staggered rewards
North Korea will receive 50,000 tonnes of fuel oil for shutting down its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon, which produces enough plutonium for one atom bomb each year.
Another 950,000 tonnes of oil has been promised once the reactor has been "disabled".

N KOREA NUCLEAR PROGRAMME
Believed to have 'handful' of nuclear weapons
But not thought to have any small enough to put in a missile
Could try dropping from plane, though world watching closely

The US will say that amounts to more than a simple freeze - but to the North Koreans it will mean less than full dismantlement.
There will also be discussions on the establishment of diplomatic relations and the de-listing of North Korea as a state that sponsors terrorism.
The idea is to stagger the rewards in line with concrete North Korean steps towards nuclear disarmament.
That, however, was also the rationale behind the Agreed Framework of 1994, which fell apart after less than a decade.
"We've lost four or five years and now we have to start again with North Korea - except the situation is worse because they've now tested a nuclear device," says Jun Bong-geun of the Institute of Foreign Affairs and National Security in Seoul.
in Seoul, there is relief that the US has gradually moderated its position.
Washington has dropped its long objection to direct talks with the North Koreans and agreed to moderate the financial squeeze it imposed in September 2005 - a response it said at the time to the "criminal activities" of the North Korean regime.
'Victory'
One of the architects of the more punitive approach, however, the former US Ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, does not like what he sees.
"I'm very disturbed by this deal, it sends exactly the wrong signal to would-be proliferators around the world: If you hold out long enough, wear down the State Department negotiators, eventually you get rewarded," he told CNN.
The first test will come in 60 days when the North Koreans are required to shut down the nuclear reactor at Yongbyon.
If past experience is any guide, each step will be hotly contested and further breakdowns in the process are likely.
The US is insisting on a full accounting of North Korea's nuclear inventory, including an alleged parallel nuclear programme based on the enrichment of uranium.
North Korea denies it exists.
North Korea will probably see the latest round in its decades-long confrontation with the US as a victory.
Its goal is probably the extraction of economic aid and the maintenance of a nuclear arsenal as a final deterrent - an objective that appears more realistic now than it did when the latest confrontation began.
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BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Hope, Experience and North Korea
The seemingly impossible work of Christopher Hill

Steve Chapman | April 5, 2007

There are some jobs you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Joke writer for Vladimir Putin, say, or literary agent for O.J. Simpson. But it would be hard to find a more onerous assignment than the one inflicted on Christopher Hill: chief U.S. negotiator with North Korea.

For the last two years, Hill has been asked to do what many people consider the equivalent of alchemy, trying to turn one of the world's least cooperative and most belligerent regimes into a partner in stopping nuclear proliferation.

His official title is Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, but as he puts it, "I'm turning out to be the Assistant Secretary for North Korea." The career diplomat speaks a variety of obscure languages, including Serbo-Croatian and Macedonian, but probably none harder to decipher than the bizarre mix of signals that emanates regularly from Pyongyang.

He has cracked the code sufficiently, though, to persuade the North Koreans to sign an agreement that, if implemented, would have unprecedented results. "There are no examples of countries that conduct nuclear tests then pulling back," he said in a Tuesday interview with me and other editorial writers at the State Department.

The deal reached in February would require the North Koreans to pull way, way back -- accepting international inspectors, decommissioning a nuclear reactor and giving up all the weapons and weapons fuel they have produced. "The Number One principle is the denuclearization of North Korea," he says.

The accord evokes skepticism because it suggests we are paying for a horse we have already bought. Back in 1994, the Clinton administration got North Korea to promise to give up its nuclear program in exchange for fuel supplies, a light-water reactor that would not yield weapons material, and eventual normalization of relations. In 2002, though, the Bush administration unveiled evidence that the Pyongyang regime had undertaken a secret program to enrich uranium, in defiance of its commitments. (For the record, we didn't keep all of ours, either.)

In due course, the whole agreement disintegrated, as Kim Jong Il evicted international inspectors, began reprocessing nuclear fuel, withdrew from the Non-Proliferation Treaty and, last October, carried out his country's first nuclear test. To suggest that now he is ready to behave brings to mind Samuel Johnson's comment about a man's remarriage: "a triumph of hope over experience."

But second marriages often turn out happy, and Hill sees a reasonable chance that this latest agreement will work as well. "We're not playing 'trust me,'" he says. The deal is structured in such a way that the North Koreans get very little until they have taken concrete steps to fulfill their obligations, such as shutting down their nuclear facilities. That has to be done by mid-April, so if they renege, we'll know very soon. At that point, we'll be out no more than 50,000 tons of heavy fuel oil, just 5 percent of the total we and our allies agreed to supply.

It's hard to be optimistic that the North Koreans will reverse course, but Hill thinks some important things have changed. The Beijing government told Kim not to detonate a bomb and warned him there would be consequences if he did.

There were. First, said Hill, the Chinese responded "by supporting a very tough resolution calling on all UN member states to ban certain types of trade with North Korea." Second, the nuclear test failed to force the United States to capitulate, as he may have hoped. Sometimes, says Hill, "when you make a threat to do something, it works better than if you actually do it."

After the test, Kim found his chief enemy and his chief ally arrayed firmly against him, putting him in a far more vulnerable position than before. The key point missed by critics of the accord, in his view, is that failure is assured without China's cooperation and success is possible -- not certain, but possible -- with it. And this time, unlike the last, Beijing has a stake in bringing about nuclear disarmament. "China is the best guarantee that North Korea won't welsh on the deal," he says.

But no one knows better than the assistant secretary of state that nobody ever lost money betting on North Korean duplicity. Hill, a phlegmatic sort who seems immune to flights of fancy, exhibits no illusions. What gives him confidence this agreement will work? "Confidence," he replies, "is too strong a word."
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North Korea nuke talks likely delayed

WASHINGTON, April 9 (UPI) -- A dispute over frozen North Korean funds makes it unlikely that a mid-April deadline will be met to shut down North Korea's nuclear reactor.
Top U.S. nuclear envoy Christopher Hill plans to travel to South Korea and China this week for more negotiations. The dispute centers on North Korea's refusal to shut down its Yongbyon reactor until it receives $25 million of its funds that have been frozen in a Macau bank, the Voice of America reported Monday.

The accounts were frozen after U.S. authorities accused North Korea of counterfeiting and other illegal activity. Federal authorities then agreed the accounts could be unfrozen to help speed the nuclear negotiations, but the Bank of China reportedly refused to transfer the money for fear of damaging its reputation, the VOA reported.

In exchange for closing its reactor, North Korea is to receive emergency aid equal to 50-thousand tons of fuel oil.
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Good "reality check" above!
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
That $25 million dollars in a account at Macau-based Banco Delta Asia SARL that were frozen by the US on suspicion of money laundering is an account is widely suspected of being Kim Jong-Il's personal account to buy luxury items that Kim is so well known for. You can clearly see the priorities of the Kim regime lies in supporting Kim's rich lifestyle, and not ensuring the survival of the nation.
 

szbd

Junior Member
Whatever it was, it was a real nuke, even if the output was below normal of planned one.
If the US gets NK situation under control, there will be no need for keeping large numbers of American troops in ROK (and Japan, for that matter). The strain on the Army & Marines would be a lot less had those 27K personnel been available in other theaters.

I don't think it's qualified to be a real nuke. First, I do believe it's not a neutron bomb. Because first you need to make an atomic bomb, then an H bomb, then is possible to develop neutron bomb. Atomic bomb is like the trigger of an H bomb and neutron bomb is a very special H bomb. I don't think NK is capable to make neutron bomb, especially without real detonated test of A bomb and H bomb.

For an A bomb, the material must gather up to a high density in a very short time, say 1/100000 second. Then it's possible for a full explotion equivalent to 20k ton TNT or so. When the reaction occurs, the material expands with high speed at the same time. Thus the probability of further reaction is dropped. Most of the energy is produced in the late phase of the reaction. So a very slight lack of accuracy in production will lead to a very slight lack of reaction time but a tremedous drop in energy. I think this is why the explotion was only 2000 tons or so. Yes physically it has only a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery little difference from a real nuke, but that makes it can not act like a real nuke.
 

Undead Yogurt

New Member
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North Korea is to dismantle its nuclear weapons program by the end of this year in exchange for the remaining 950k tons of fuel oil.

My thoughts:
1) Kim Jong-il maybe quite ill (pun intended) and is worried about leaving too much of a mess to his son. (BTW, for what it's worth, the Daily NK is reporting a speculation that the second son will be designated heir in 2012.)

2) How much bribe money did Roh shove into the pockets of Kim for this "historic" political coup?

3) Is this it? Of course not. With NK no deal is ever really binding. I wouldn't be surprised at all if five years down the road NK declares out of nowhere that it is once again ready to test a nuke, unless the rest of the world gives it another lollipop.
 
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