JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

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Scratch

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

Does the PLAAF even what this aircraft? It already has the hi (J11) and low (J10) aircraft mix.

Perhaps to replaced the Q-5, J-8 in the ground attack role?

I somehow don't think the J-10 to be the low end, rather than medium-hi.
The JF-17s could probably fly CAPs over less important installations, or perhaps air interdicioton?
 

adeptitus

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

Does the PLAAF even what this aircraft? It already has the hi (J11) and low (J10) aircraft mix.

Perhaps to replaced the Q-5, J-8 in the ground attack role?


IMO the FC-1 is more of a MiG-21/J-7 replacement (light fighter), while the JH-7 can qualify as the Q-5 replacement (attacker), though I also think a militarized version of the L-15 would replace Q-5's CAS role.

Years ago the consensus from various articles was that the PLAAF didn't really want the FC-1, but they had to accept it because of the Sino-Pakistani relations through this joint venture. Since they're stuck with it, mind as well make the best out of it.
 

crobato

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

The original intention may have been the FC-1 as a low end J-7 replacement, and the J-10 as low to med mix fighter, but events and evolution appeared to have changed all that.

The electronic capabilities of the J-10 has reached to a point that not only does it clearly surpasses the original J-11s, but also the Su-30MKK. Surely the Flankers still can carry more payload, have more hardpoints, suffer less flight penalties when carrying stuff, and still has more range. But nonetheless, the combat capabilities of an aircraft is being increasingly judged and valued through its electronics.

Of course, not until the PLAAF acquires the J-11B, which is already in the process of doing so, or the latest Su-35s, can this electronic balance be redressed and matched to the airframe capability.

The FC-1 evolved far more than a J-7 replacement. Complete with SD-10 and missiles that can take advantage of helmet targeting systems, the FC-1 is easily a serious threat to any aircraft today. I use the word threat, because threat does not imply superiority. The FC-1 is not superior technologically by any means to many fighters you have today, like a Typhoon or Su-30MK. But threat means it has a seriously good chance of taking one down, if opportunity, tactics and pilot skill presents that chance. Think of it as a cobra confronting a tiger. A cobra is way down the evolutionary ladder to the opposing mammal, but if a chance presents to allow a quick bite, the venom will kill the much bigger and powerful animal.

Because of raising requirements and a much later introduction entry, the FC-1's systems may not only have closed the gap with the J-10's systems but may even have incrementally improved on those as well. The J-10 was planned to counter the F-16 Block 20, Mirage 2000 and the F-CK-1, and so its specifications are built around these parameters. The FC-1 had to deal with the MKI, and whatever the Indians plan to introduce, so the FC-1 has already undertaken an upgrade cycle even during development.

Because of rising electronics capabilties along with introductions close to each other, the electronic differences between FC-1, J-10 and J-11B is not as well defined as the US fighters, which have development gaps that can be measured as much as one to two decades. Thus there is a huge difference between the systems onboard an F-14D vs. a Phase II Super Hornet for example.

So this mix definition has become very blurred, and the airframe begins to matter less compared to the electronics onboard.

***

On another matter, the JH-7A isn't really a true replacement of the Q-5, as anymore as the Su-34 is to the Su-25. Big interdictor deep strike jets intended against more strategic targets are not in the same class as cheap, tough, highly agile aircraft intended for battlefield support. In this sense ,the Q-5 never has any replacement at all, and the closest to even coming one does not have true wings---the WZ-10 attack helicopter.

In a battlefield, the JH-7A will respond differently than a Q-5. When attacked, the JH-7A goes low, hugging the earth and tries to run away. The Q-5 on the other hand, will swing around and try to catch you in a dogfight. Even in PAF service, their A-5s are said to engage F-16As in dogfight during exercises.

Perhaps as the other post says, a militarized L-15 may do the trick for a Q-5 replacementm, though I doubt it would be as cheap.
 

tphuang

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

Does the PLAAF even want this aircraft? It already has the hi (J11) and low (J10) aircraft mix.

Perhaps to replaced the Q-5, J-8 in the ground attack role?
It's a little hard to say right now. We know CAC gets a lot of orders for J-10, XAC gets a fair amount for JH-7A/H-6 and SAC gets some for J-11 series. But when it comes to export items like JF-17, JL-15 and JL-9, only JL-9 has received a small number of firm orders so far. I guess there are too many factors right now:
1. how good is JF-17?
2. how cheap is JF-17?
3. how many export orders does it have?
4. how many regiments of J-7 are due for retirement, can the J-10 production keep up?
5. how many WS-13s can they produce?

Either way, it's clear that JF-17's initial production will satisify PAF's requirements first.
 

IDonT

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

I'm worried about the actual range of this aircraft.

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In PAF colors, this aircraft maybe the low end of the fighter mix. Unless you can make it do air to air refueling, this plane is better used for air base defense while the F-16 does other things. Look at the gas capacity:

Total internal fuel 2300 kg

Light the afterburner once or twice and you are going to go bingo fuel at 250mi/400km from home.
 

Scratch

Captain
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

I'm worried about the actual range of this aircraft...

If my data is correct, the Gripen has only slightly more internal fuel, the engine delivers more dry thrust and the same AB thrust (though of course you can't judge the efficiancy here).
Mirage 2000 has a little more, and a somewhat stronger enginge, Rafale has not twice the internal fuel capacity but two engines with same dry thrust each and little less AB thrust.

But as you said the JF-17 is probably not for long range missions of any kind (strike, fighter sweep, OCA). And it will serve pretty well as a base defender.
 

tphuang

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

JL-9 has received export orders? I didn't know that. Please provide more info.

sorry, I mean JL-9 is the only way that has received any order from plaaf thus far. The other two are stuck at 0.
 

crobato

Colonel
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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

From what I know the DSI'ed FC-1s added 200kg more of fuel. The amont of fuel is reasonable to expect for an engine of this thrust and weight class. However, this is still not a long legged fighter by any means.
 
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