Best trained infantries (Top 5-10)
- Thread starter Liberator
- Start date
BrotherofSnake
Junior Member
U.S. Army training does not suck. Our mechanized infantry divisions are unmatched.
Last edited:
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
brother of snake, you watch too much t.v about ranger school and all that dont you? tell you what, the u.s mil training is not so advanced. its their tech and the inability of their opponents. many chechnians and repub guards in falujah easily ambushed and killed u.s soldiers.
Liberator
Junior Member
Brother of snake, i say you watch too many US action movies as a child, who do you think you are or who do you think every US soldier are? Rambo? John Wayne? Marshal Dillon?
US training spends high amount of funds, but their soldiers did not train good. Chinese soldiers can get to a higher experience with much smaller training funds dan US.
BrotherofSnake
Junior Member
lol, I never said every American soldier is the best in the world. I only said that they do not suck.
Spartan00006
New Member
i think the US GI training isn't harsh and demanding enough...just my uninformed opinion
however their specops are among the best in the world
anyone have any info on different (china, us, nk, britain, german, switzerland, israel, iran, russia etc.) militaries' training programmes?
however their specops are among the best in the world
anyone have any info on different (china, us, nk, britain, german, switzerland, israel, iran, russia etc.) militaries' training programmes?
Here is a useful article:
SEAL detachment (the U.S.A.), COMSUBIN team (Italy), SBS special squadron (the U.K.), the K unit (Germany) and the SSGN group (Pakistan) are just a few units of foreign armies formed to carry out special naval operations. They are commonly known as combat swimmers (frogmen), or naval special operations forces.
In 1969, the U.S. command noted that combat swimmer teams made a proportionally greater contribution to the outcome of war than representatives of any other service. According to experts of the London Institute of Strategic Studies, the most battleworthy units of combat swimmers are those in the U.K., Germany, Israel, Iran, the Netherlands, Pakistan, Russia, the U.S.A., and France.
The main feature of naval special operations forces today is their multifunctional capabilities because they are able to accomplish any mission: underwater saboteur actions in enemy ports, protection of friendly water areas from enemy divers, and land actions as ordinary scouts and saboteurs.
To accomplish such a wide range of missions, combat swimmers must be provided with an arsenal of technical assets and reliable weapons, above all, a special multipurpose assault rifle which must be equally effective in underwater and land operations.
Fig.3 5.45mm ASM-DT special multipurpose (universal two-medium) assault rifle: for firing under water (above) and for firing in air (below)
An analysis indicates that, to meet the challenges of special missions assigned to combat swimmers and the situations they have to deal with during land and underwater operations, a universal (intended for use in both media) assault rifle should be as effective as the 5.45mm AK-74 assault rifle when firing in air and the 5.66mm APS assault rifle when firing under water.
In these circumstances, the simplest solution is to equip the combat swimmer with two types of arms: a special arm for underwater firing and a conventional arm for firing in air. However, the increased weight of the swimmer’s armament considerably hampers his maneuverability and agility. Furthermore, the swimmer becomes practically defenseless at the moment of surfacing. Nonetheless, until quite recently, we have had to reconcile with this situation.
Effective use of the same weapon in the two media has been considered problematic, above all, due to the lack of universal ammunition. Water is 800 times denser than air; it means that the flow around the nose of a bullet moving in water is accompanied by changes in the shape of the incoming flow and also by formation of a cavitation recess (cavern). Furthermore, if use is made of conventional cartridges (intended for firing in air), the relatively short length of the bullet and the oval shape of its nose cause a considerable angle of turn of the bullet in the cavern, an indefinite position of points of water separation from the bullet surface and, finally, departure of the bullet from its trajectory. In other words, due to the gyroscopic effect, a bullet loses stability in water and its trajectory obeys no rules.
Fig.4 5.45mm ASM-DT special multipurpose (universal two-medium) assault rifle: for firing under water (above) and for firing in air (below)
Since the cavern’s lateral dimensions greatly depend on the bullet velocity, the maximum disturbance factors affects the bullet at the initial phase of its trajectory and considerably reduces its flight range. For example, the effective range of the bullet of a 5.45mm AK-74 Kalashnikov assault rifle fired in water does not exceed one meter.
As a rule, the bullets of special underwater cartridges have an increased relative length (up to 20 calibers) and a nose made in the form of a truncated cone. When this bullet moves in water in a developed cavitation mode, the water flows around the flat cut of its nose (cavitator) only, which reduces the hydraulic resistance and decreases lateral dimensions of the cavern. In this case the bullet’s movement is stabilized owing to the oscillating motions in the cavern cavity relative to the flat cut of the nose. This results in the interaction between the bullet tail and the side boundaries of the cavitation cavity.
Fig.5 Underwater flight of 5.66mm MPS cartridge bullet fired from APS assault rifle
Fig.6 Professor Yuri Danilov with ASM-DT assault rifle
However, a long bullet is absolutely unstable in air. For example, the consistency of fire of the APS assault rifle is so low that it is practically impossible to engage a 1x1m target at a range of 50 m when firing from an unsteady position (when surfacing or staying afloat without ground support). Even shifting the bullet’s center of gravity far forward or using specially designed fins cannot stabilize its movement.
One should not ignore the fact that the speed of motion of a rifle’s moving parts (bolt carrier with the bolt) in the rearmost position differs greatly with firing one and the same cartridge in different media. The difference is so striking that the specifications for the APS assault rifle guarantee only 2,000 shots for firing in water and 180 shots for firing in air.
Another problem of using one and the same weapon model in two media is its “hydrophobia.” This drawback is typical of many small-caliber weapons. The presence of water in the bore (which cannot be avoided during submersion and cannot be removed during the swimmer’s noiseless and unnoticed surfacing) makes the weapon operation unsafe due to possible barrel bulge, blowout of the cartridge case primer or deformation of the locking assembly.
So, the actual efficiency of combat employment of the existing assault weapons by special task units of Russia’s Armed Forces and other law enforcement bodies do not fully meet the present-day requirements. The AK-74 assault rifle can be effectively used for engaging targets on land and is absolutely unfit for firing under water. On the contrary, the 5.66mm APS assault rifle is sufficiently effective for underwater firing and is of little use for firing in air. So, the problem of developing a unified two-medium weapon, an assault rifle in particular, persists.
Fig.7 Underwater flight of 5.45mm 7N6 cartridge bullet fired from AK-74 assault rifle
Underwater small arms are fairly new types weapons, nevertheless such weapons are already available in Russia and abroad. For example, the 4.5mm SPP-1 underwater pistol, developed by the outstanding arms designers Yelena and Vladimir Simonovs, has been adopted for service with the Russian Navy. It is a four-barreled pistol weighing 0.86 kg. The barrel cluster is hinged to the frame (as in a hunting shotgun) and is secured in the firing position by the latch. Each pull of the trigger fires one cartridge while cocking the firing pin and rotating it by 90o.
Active type SPS cartridges are held in a special clip for loading. When firing the pistol at a depth of 5 m, the killing range reaches 17 m. However, this characteristic should not be confused with the accurate firing range: the SPP-1 pistol has proven effective in firing under water at a range of 5 to 7 m, and only with experienced sharpshooters the range can reach 10 m.
Basically, this pistol allows firing in air (with the use of the same standard cartridge). However, the engagement of targets at a range of over 15 m becomes problematic. The reason behind it, above all, is the excessive power of the cartridge and the resulting considerable displacement of both the arm and the shooter.
Underwater armament currently in service with Russian combat swimmers also includes the 5.66mm APS special underwater assault rifle. This is a gas-operated automatic weapon. The trigger mechanism allows single-shot and automatic fire. The assault rifle is fed with cartridges from the 26-round box magazine.
The assault rifle fires special MPS cartridges. The muzzle velocity of their bullets is 250 m/s in water at a depth of 5 m and 365 m/s in air. The killing range of the bullet in water is about 25 m, while the effective range is 12 to 15 m. The range characteristics deteriorate with depth.
As for creating universal arms capable of effectively accomplishing fire missions both on land and under water, the first successful attempt was made in Russia in early 1990. The work involved researchers from specialized research institutes and higher military schools. Today, Russia has only one laboratory which can develop, research into and test underwater small arms. This laboratory developed and tested the first models of the SPP-1 pistol and the APS assault rifle. It is located in Tula, at the Artillery Engineering Institute. The institute management made great efforts to organize the R&D work and support researchers.
The unique experimental facilities of the institute made it possible to study the processes taking place during firing under water and find solutions to increase combat effectiveness of existing underwater weapons and develop new-generation models. In 1991, the institute developed the first universal two-medium assault rifle which outperforms the APS assault rifle in firing under water and the AKS-74U assault rifle in firing in air.
The institute updated the APS assault rifle and actually created a new multipurpose assault rifle, ASM-DT. In 2000, it passed comprehensive tests run at a Defense Ministry proving ground. The test program included trials for firing in air and under water. Some test results are shown in the Table 1 and 2 above.
An analysis of the data indicates that, in terms of consistency of fire, the new assault rifle outperforms the AK-74M, AK-105 and M-16A1 assault rifles and actually equals Nikonov’s AN-94 Abakan assault rifle designed for firing in air, and the APS assault rifle designed for firing under water. Therewith, the new assault rifle’s life was increased to 15,000 shots (10,000 shots in air + 5,000 shots under water), as compared to the APS assault rifle with a fire life of 180 + 2,000 shots, respectively.
One of the main design features of the ASM-DT assault rifle is that it is fed from removable magazines loaded with cartridges of different types. This innovation allows firing standard 5.45mm assault rifle cartridges (7N6, 7N6M, 7N10, 7N22, 7T3) in air and special 5.45mm PSP cartridges (of the MGTS type) under water.
The barrel of the new assault rifle, unlike the APS rifle, is rifled. Its muzzle can mount a flash-suppressing recoil compensator, a blank firing attachment, an UPMS low-report device and a PBS silencer.
It is completed with a GP-25M underbarrel grenade launcher, a bayonet knife, a laser target designator and an illuminating light.
To increase the effectiveness of fire, the receiver and its cover are provided with points for attaching all types of domestic and foreign optical, collimator and night sights. Provision is also made for installation of a quick-release bipod.
The unique feature of the assault rifle is that it lacks “hydrophobia”, which is essential when transferring from the water to air medium.
At present, in terms of its capabilities, the ASM-DT assault rifle is the only weapon in the world which can equal the AK-74 assault rifle in firing in air and the APS assault rifle in firing under water.
SEAL detachment (the U.S.A.), COMSUBIN team (Italy), SBS special squadron (the U.K.), the K unit (Germany) and the SSGN group (Pakistan) are just a few units of foreign armies formed to carry out special naval operations. They are commonly known as combat swimmers (frogmen), or naval special operations forces.
In 1969, the U.S. command noted that combat swimmer teams made a proportionally greater contribution to the outcome of war than representatives of any other service. According to experts of the London Institute of Strategic Studies, the most battleworthy units of combat swimmers are those in the U.K., Germany, Israel, Iran, the Netherlands, Pakistan, Russia, the U.S.A., and France.
The main feature of naval special operations forces today is their multifunctional capabilities because they are able to accomplish any mission: underwater saboteur actions in enemy ports, protection of friendly water areas from enemy divers, and land actions as ordinary scouts and saboteurs.
To accomplish such a wide range of missions, combat swimmers must be provided with an arsenal of technical assets and reliable weapons, above all, a special multipurpose assault rifle which must be equally effective in underwater and land operations.
Fig.3 5.45mm ASM-DT special multipurpose (universal two-medium) assault rifle: for firing under water (above) and for firing in air (below)
An analysis indicates that, to meet the challenges of special missions assigned to combat swimmers and the situations they have to deal with during land and underwater operations, a universal (intended for use in both media) assault rifle should be as effective as the 5.45mm AK-74 assault rifle when firing in air and the 5.66mm APS assault rifle when firing under water.
In these circumstances, the simplest solution is to equip the combat swimmer with two types of arms: a special arm for underwater firing and a conventional arm for firing in air. However, the increased weight of the swimmer’s armament considerably hampers his maneuverability and agility. Furthermore, the swimmer becomes practically defenseless at the moment of surfacing. Nonetheless, until quite recently, we have had to reconcile with this situation.
Effective use of the same weapon in the two media has been considered problematic, above all, due to the lack of universal ammunition. Water is 800 times denser than air; it means that the flow around the nose of a bullet moving in water is accompanied by changes in the shape of the incoming flow and also by formation of a cavitation recess (cavern). Furthermore, if use is made of conventional cartridges (intended for firing in air), the relatively short length of the bullet and the oval shape of its nose cause a considerable angle of turn of the bullet in the cavern, an indefinite position of points of water separation from the bullet surface and, finally, departure of the bullet from its trajectory. In other words, due to the gyroscopic effect, a bullet loses stability in water and its trajectory obeys no rules.
Fig.4 5.45mm ASM-DT special multipurpose (universal two-medium) assault rifle: for firing under water (above) and for firing in air (below)
Since the cavern’s lateral dimensions greatly depend on the bullet velocity, the maximum disturbance factors affects the bullet at the initial phase of its trajectory and considerably reduces its flight range. For example, the effective range of the bullet of a 5.45mm AK-74 Kalashnikov assault rifle fired in water does not exceed one meter.
As a rule, the bullets of special underwater cartridges have an increased relative length (up to 20 calibers) and a nose made in the form of a truncated cone. When this bullet moves in water in a developed cavitation mode, the water flows around the flat cut of its nose (cavitator) only, which reduces the hydraulic resistance and decreases lateral dimensions of the cavern. In this case the bullet’s movement is stabilized owing to the oscillating motions in the cavern cavity relative to the flat cut of the nose. This results in the interaction between the bullet tail and the side boundaries of the cavitation cavity.
Fig.5 Underwater flight of 5.66mm MPS cartridge bullet fired from APS assault rifle
Fig.6 Professor Yuri Danilov with ASM-DT assault rifle
However, a long bullet is absolutely unstable in air. For example, the consistency of fire of the APS assault rifle is so low that it is practically impossible to engage a 1x1m target at a range of 50 m when firing from an unsteady position (when surfacing or staying afloat without ground support). Even shifting the bullet’s center of gravity far forward or using specially designed fins cannot stabilize its movement.
One should not ignore the fact that the speed of motion of a rifle’s moving parts (bolt carrier with the bolt) in the rearmost position differs greatly with firing one and the same cartridge in different media. The difference is so striking that the specifications for the APS assault rifle guarantee only 2,000 shots for firing in water and 180 shots for firing in air.
Another problem of using one and the same weapon model in two media is its “hydrophobia.” This drawback is typical of many small-caliber weapons. The presence of water in the bore (which cannot be avoided during submersion and cannot be removed during the swimmer’s noiseless and unnoticed surfacing) makes the weapon operation unsafe due to possible barrel bulge, blowout of the cartridge case primer or deformation of the locking assembly.
So, the actual efficiency of combat employment of the existing assault weapons by special task units of Russia’s Armed Forces and other law enforcement bodies do not fully meet the present-day requirements. The AK-74 assault rifle can be effectively used for engaging targets on land and is absolutely unfit for firing under water. On the contrary, the 5.66mm APS assault rifle is sufficiently effective for underwater firing and is of little use for firing in air. So, the problem of developing a unified two-medium weapon, an assault rifle in particular, persists.
Fig.7 Underwater flight of 5.45mm 7N6 cartridge bullet fired from AK-74 assault rifle
Underwater small arms are fairly new types weapons, nevertheless such weapons are already available in Russia and abroad. For example, the 4.5mm SPP-1 underwater pistol, developed by the outstanding arms designers Yelena and Vladimir Simonovs, has been adopted for service with the Russian Navy. It is a four-barreled pistol weighing 0.86 kg. The barrel cluster is hinged to the frame (as in a hunting shotgun) and is secured in the firing position by the latch. Each pull of the trigger fires one cartridge while cocking the firing pin and rotating it by 90o.
Active type SPS cartridges are held in a special clip for loading. When firing the pistol at a depth of 5 m, the killing range reaches 17 m. However, this characteristic should not be confused with the accurate firing range: the SPP-1 pistol has proven effective in firing under water at a range of 5 to 7 m, and only with experienced sharpshooters the range can reach 10 m.
Basically, this pistol allows firing in air (with the use of the same standard cartridge). However, the engagement of targets at a range of over 15 m becomes problematic. The reason behind it, above all, is the excessive power of the cartridge and the resulting considerable displacement of both the arm and the shooter.
Underwater armament currently in service with Russian combat swimmers also includes the 5.66mm APS special underwater assault rifle. This is a gas-operated automatic weapon. The trigger mechanism allows single-shot and automatic fire. The assault rifle is fed with cartridges from the 26-round box magazine.
The assault rifle fires special MPS cartridges. The muzzle velocity of their bullets is 250 m/s in water at a depth of 5 m and 365 m/s in air. The killing range of the bullet in water is about 25 m, while the effective range is 12 to 15 m. The range characteristics deteriorate with depth.
As for creating universal arms capable of effectively accomplishing fire missions both on land and under water, the first successful attempt was made in Russia in early 1990. The work involved researchers from specialized research institutes and higher military schools. Today, Russia has only one laboratory which can develop, research into and test underwater small arms. This laboratory developed and tested the first models of the SPP-1 pistol and the APS assault rifle. It is located in Tula, at the Artillery Engineering Institute. The institute management made great efforts to organize the R&D work and support researchers.
The unique experimental facilities of the institute made it possible to study the processes taking place during firing under water and find solutions to increase combat effectiveness of existing underwater weapons and develop new-generation models. In 1991, the institute developed the first universal two-medium assault rifle which outperforms the APS assault rifle in firing under water and the AKS-74U assault rifle in firing in air.
The institute updated the APS assault rifle and actually created a new multipurpose assault rifle, ASM-DT. In 2000, it passed comprehensive tests run at a Defense Ministry proving ground. The test program included trials for firing in air and under water. Some test results are shown in the Table 1 and 2 above.
An analysis of the data indicates that, in terms of consistency of fire, the new assault rifle outperforms the AK-74M, AK-105 and M-16A1 assault rifles and actually equals Nikonov’s AN-94 Abakan assault rifle designed for firing in air, and the APS assault rifle designed for firing under water. Therewith, the new assault rifle’s life was increased to 15,000 shots (10,000 shots in air + 5,000 shots under water), as compared to the APS assault rifle with a fire life of 180 + 2,000 shots, respectively.
One of the main design features of the ASM-DT assault rifle is that it is fed from removable magazines loaded with cartridges of different types. This innovation allows firing standard 5.45mm assault rifle cartridges (7N6, 7N6M, 7N10, 7N22, 7T3) in air and special 5.45mm PSP cartridges (of the MGTS type) under water.
The barrel of the new assault rifle, unlike the APS rifle, is rifled. Its muzzle can mount a flash-suppressing recoil compensator, a blank firing attachment, an UPMS low-report device and a PBS silencer.
It is completed with a GP-25M underbarrel grenade launcher, a bayonet knife, a laser target designator and an illuminating light.
To increase the effectiveness of fire, the receiver and its cover are provided with points for attaching all types of domestic and foreign optical, collimator and night sights. Provision is also made for installation of a quick-release bipod.
The unique feature of the assault rifle is that it lacks “hydrophobia”, which is essential when transferring from the water to air medium.
At present, in terms of its capabilities, the ASM-DT assault rifle is the only weapon in the world which can equal the AK-74 assault rifle in firing in air and the APS assault rifle in firing under water.