China's SCS Strategy Thread

advill said:

To establish continued good relationship with Indonesia as well as the 4 claimants of their territorial waters in South China Sea, the long discussed Code of Conduct must be established soon without any ambiguity. Countries want Peace and Stability in South East Asia, and in Asia as a whole. Let common sense prevail without posturing by any big powers in our region.

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Do you seriously think that the Code of Conduct will resolve the territorial claims between the countries? The underlying framework for resolution already exist within UNCLOS. The Code of conduct is just an attempt to preempt any actions that might start a war by accident.

The recent Natuna incident concerning historical fishing rights, the Vietnamese oil exploration issues within its EEZ and Malaysia's decision last December to its continental shelf by submitting a petition to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf are all governed by UNCLOS. How would a Code of conduct document resolve these issues?

Brumby said:

Do you seriously think that the Code of Conduct will resolve the territorial claims between the countries? The underlying framework for resolution already exist within UNCLOS. The Code of conduct is just an attempt to preempt any actions that might start a war by accident.

The recent Natuna incident concerning historical fishing rights, the Vietnamese oil exploration issues within its EEZ and Malaysia's decision last December to

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its continental shelf by submitting a petition to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf are all governed by UNCLOS. How would a Code of conduct document resolve these issues?

Click to expand...

Like most Westerners , particularly the Americans, Asians DO NOT bull doze their way into negotiations, whether for trade or the Code of Conduct for the South China Sea. Yes, China disregarded the UNCLOS for the SCS disputes, BUT that doesn’t mean the Code of Conduct cannot be negotiated aimed at satisfactory agreements. Best to Leave SUCH MATTERS to ASEAN countries to when discussing SCS Code of Conduct with China. It is unlikely China will bull-doze its way whether for trade and security arrangements, like President Trump is and has been doing - no need for me to elaborate. Understand Cultural differences & act accordingly with diplomacy and without being brash.

Mark777c said:

Someone told me the Iowa class battleships can be reactivated if things get really bad for the United states in a war in the south China sea ? Any opinions anyone i think theyd do fine they were reactivated in the 1980s to fight the kirov class battlecruiser a modern missile cruiser and most people say the Iowa would win , my uncle in Illinois hes a us navy guy told me theres dozens of warehouse somewhere where he lives that holds whole shelfs full of 16 inch naval shells held in storage , dont forgot Iowa has tomahawks that can be nuclear tipped her shells to which is insane not being political this is purely military facts

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Most people are dimwits. Most people are wrong most of the time. Most people are motivated by their tribal allegiance. Most people don't know shit about modern naval warfare.

Let's suppose the USN takes YEARS to upgrade those Iowas to support modern ordinance and fit modern electronics, sensors, software. How much time and money has that cost them? Why not build a ground up Tico replacement to match 055 and Kirov type heavyweights? Why not just buy more F-35s?? You know why this isn't even considered by the USN (the guys who would actually know)? Because it's a moronic idea.

@Mark777c why again this Iowa BS?? I already deleted this stuff yesterday and you re-posted it again??

Please do us a favour and stop posting off topic BS in certain threads for a dedicated topic.
USS Iowa in the SCS thread and your constant war-mongering is off topic and since political, it's forbidden.

Therefore welcome on board but take this as a warning and please read the forum rules before posting again.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/new-members-read-before-posting.t1575/

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/sd-forum-rules-of-behavior.t7850/

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/new-rules-no-political-topics-any-more.t8555/

Best

Deino said:

@Mark777c why again this Iowa BS?? I already deleted this stuff yesterday and you re-posted it again??

Please do us a favour and stop posting off topic BS in certain threads for a dedicated topic.
USS Iowa in the SCS thread and your constant war-mongering is off topic and since political, it's forbidden.

Therefore welcome on board but take this as a warning and please read the forum rules before posting again.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/new-members-read-before-posting.t1575/

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/sd-forum-rules-of-behavior.t7850/

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/new-rules-no-political-topics-any-more.t8555/

Best

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Please delete all my posts on this specific thread please thank you , i hope this sentence is long enough for you guys to not correct me saying its to short

Brumby said:

Do you seriously think that the Code of Conduct will resolve the territorial claims between the countries? The underlying framework for resolution already exist within UNCLOS. The Code of conduct is just an attempt to preempt any actions that might start a war by accident.

The recent Natuna incident concerning historical fishing rights, the Vietnamese oil exploration issues within its EEZ and Malaysia's decision last December to

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

its continental shelf by submitting a petition to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf are all governed by UNCLOS. How would a Code of conduct document resolve these issues?

Click to expand...

I take it this is the same wonderful UNCLOS that USA refused to sign! But expect everyone to abide by. Figures!

And this is the same UNCLOS that allows exception cluses which China and others claimants have exercised. An inconvient truth that you selected to mention. Figures!

advill said:

Like most Westerners , particularly the Americans, Asians DO NOT bull doze their way into negotiations, whether for trade or the Code of Conduct for the South China Sea. Yes, China disregarded the UNCLOS for the SCS disputes, BUT that doesn’t mean the Code of Conduct cannot be negotiated aimed at satisfactory agreements. Best to Leave SUCH MATTERS to ASEAN countries to when discussing SCS Code of Conduct with China. It is unlikely China will bull-doze its way whether for trade and security arrangements, like President Trump is and has been doing - no need for me to elaborate. Understand Cultural differences & act accordingly with diplomacy and without being brash.

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Absolutely, the USA refused to ratified UNCLOS, and are therefore have standing in any dispute between parties using UNCLOS. Yet, it see itself at the centre of these dispute even though it is half way around the world, because "freedom of navigation". Lol. You can't make it up!

ougoah said:

Most people are dimwits. Most people are wrong most of the time. Most people are motivated by their tribal allegiance. Most people don't know shit about modern naval warfare.

Let's suppose the USN takes YEARS to upgrade those Iowas to support modern ordinance and fit modern electronics, sensors, software. How much time and money has that cost them? Why not build a ground up Tico replacement to match 055 and Kirov type heavyweights? Why not just buy more F-35s?? You know why this isn't even considered by the USN (the guys who would actually know)? Because it's a moronic idea.

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He's been watching too much "battleship"! Someone should break it to him, it's only a film!

advill said:

Like most Westerners , particularly the Americans, Asians DO NOT bull doze their way into negotiations, whether for trade or the Code of Conduct for the South China Sea. Yes, China disregarded the UNCLOS for the SCS disputes, BUT that doesn’t mean the Code of Conduct cannot be negotiated aimed at satisfactory agreements. Best to Leave SUCH MATTERS to ASEAN countries to when discussing SCS Code of Conduct with China. It is unlikely China will bull-doze its way whether for trade and security arrangements, like President Trump is and has been doing - no need for me to elaborate. Understand Cultural differences & act accordingly with diplomacy and without being brash.

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A minor but critically important point in fact is that China specifically and purposefully used existing provisions and rules within UNCLOS upon ratification to grandfather in its SCS historical claims as historical; and as such, made UNCLOS utterly irrelevant in regards to the SCS issue.

This is an indisputable fact, yet funny how the western MSM manage to collectively ‘overlook’ it in every.single.fucking report on the matter.

It’s ok for different publications and agencies to have different interpretations of events, but it’s utterly beyond credulity that every.single.fucking western news agency would all miss the same incredibly important piece of indisputable fact in all their reporting on the subject.

plawolf said:

A minor but critically important point in fact is that China specifically and purposefully used existing provisions and rules within UNCLOS upon ratification to grandfather in its SCS historical claims as historical; and as such, made UNCLOS utterly irrelevant in regards to the SCS issue.

This is an indisputable fact, yet funny how the western MSM manage to collectively ‘overlook’ it in every.single.fucking report on the matter.

It’s ok for different publications and agencies to have different interpretations of events, but it’s utterly beyond credulity that every.single.fucking western news agency would all miss the same incredibly important piece of indisputable fact in all their reporting on the subject.

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Great analysis. Couldn't agree more. But calm down a bit Wolfie, or you could be in trouble with the mods! Lol