If Russia objects the engine being sold to another country, it would have to be a country that was going to purchase a Russian fighter as the closest alternative. Or a country where Russia normally exerts an influence over i.e. pressures to buy Russian anyway. These potential JF-17 operating countries don't really exist. Malaysia will not be buying Mig-29s and if they get tempted by Mig-35s while choosing JF-17, there's a chance it will send the Russians into diplomatic action. Such a bridge can be crossed then. For now, JF-17 has made a few export sales and no Russian hint of cutting supply at all. If more sales come and Russians complain for some of the reasons discussed, they can use WS-13 or possibly the better engine that will replace the RD-93/WS-13.
JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
- Start date
I think it's not only an issue of funding though. Most of the organization right now is geared towards building and mainstreaming the Thunder platform. As those resources free up they will be redirected towards Azm. So if including the IRST adds another year, or increases the cost considerably, then it won't be worth it.
We have to remember the original scope of the project. The Thunder was never supposed to be the top-tier fighter for the PAF. It was a 4th gen replacement for legacy 3rd gen A/C. It doesn't even replace our vipers.
I actually never considered IRST to be a counter to 5th gen at all. If I remember correctly, this whole myth started a decade ago, when the Russians started bragging that their IRST's can detect the Raptor or something (which always made me laugh.)
With that said, there is no doubt that IRST has a place against the masses of pre-AESA 4 gen A/C with pulse dopplers blasting the airspace. And that is the target set the Thunder is designed to counter, so it is a valid concern. I still think that a podded IRST for the Block III, a few per squadron, would be a good tool. But I wont sacrifice time for it.
Could also be PAF not being satisfied with the IRST offered. Perhaps the performances are limited by the size constraints. Who knows. Maybe CAC and suppliers only offered IRST that were of lower spec and performance compared to the latest ones on J-10s and J-16s. Maybe those won't fit.
I doubt that it was restricted, because the J-10C is approved for export, and the JF-17 is also a Chinese export product, basically.
I'm confused about the availability of podded IRSTs though. I'm not sure what systems China produces, since it uses integrated IRSTs itself.
Brumby
Major
AZM is OT and I would refrain from further comments. As you pointed out, the JF-17 is meant to be affordable and in numbers. In this respect the project itself is achieving its goals. IMO, the PAF is being faithful to its mandate and adding IRST would add cost without the corresponding benefits.
Historically The Russians had been a stronger proponent of IRST with the OLS series as a way to offset the US advantage in radar technology. However, the older OLS series were based on uncooled/cooled/non imaging IR technology that was cheap but had limited utility. Even the OLS-35 is based on scanning IR not staring and the one on the SU-57 is reportedly based on QWIP. The revival of interest in IRST in the West is due to advancements in processing capabilities The planned AESA with the Block 3 will naturally demand an upgrade to its processors as AESA is signal processing intensive. Adding IRST will add further burden onto a system that is already cost constrained. .
A podded IRST in my view is a better future route for the JF-17 for multiple reasons including :
1)IRST is mission set dependent. An embedded system is wasteful as opposed to a podded system that can be mated to the platform when needed.
2)IRST is typically single IR band unless you can afford the luxury of dual band IR with MWIR/LWIR. LWIR band is cheaper and typically suited for air-to-air missions. The JF-17 is predominantly multi role and using a podded system is a more optimal deployment of limited resources.
3)IR data can be data link and shared within a formation dispensing with the need to be embedded within each platform.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
It would be pretty simple and straight forward for China to take existing integrated fighter IRSTs and put it in a podded form.
This does bring up a somewhat related questions - any news on the rumoured extra intake hardpoint(s) for the BLK3?
Last I heard, they were planning to add one new hardpoint under an intake for pods.
Is that confirmed? Also, it always seemed both strange and short sighted to add only one intake hardpoint.
Would make far more sense to add a pair.
That way you can add two pods without sacrificing serious hardpoints, which will be invaluable for both AA and AG missions.
For AA, a jamming pod and an IRST pod would be a perfect combo.
For AG, you can have a targeting pod and a jammer, or radar navigation pod if you want to do nap of the Earth flying.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
beautiful
so it means now Block II can proceed to ground attack with fire and forget capability
not like those silly Mirages with H2 and H4 which have be guided all the way to the target
so it means now Block II can proceed to ground attack with fire and forget capability
not like those silly Mirages with H2 and H4 which have be guided all the way to the target
ASELPOD ON JF-17 COMFIRMED!
It was recently confirmed through Aselsan's Annual Yearbook for 2017 that the company's ASELPOD advanced targeting pod was successfully integrated to and tested from the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) JF-17 THUNDER multi-role fighter in 2017. The PAF ordered eight ASELPODs for U$25 million from Aselsan in 2016, with deliveries in November 2016 as well as September and February 2017.
Pakistan was the launch export customer of the ASELPOD, having procured the ASELPOD in a bid to provide the JF-17 with precision-strike ground attack capabilities. By deploying the ASELPOD, the JF-17 is able to deploy laser-guided bombs and, if equipped, laser-guided air-to-ground missiles.
Though Aselsan saidat IDEAS2016 that it anticipates additional ASELPOD orders from Pakistan, it is unclear if the PAF has made another order. That said, the Daily Sabah newspaer reported that Pakistan ordered another batch for $24.9 million, citing Aselsan’s disclosure on the Turkish government’s Public Disclosure Platform (KAP) in May 2017.
It is unclear if Aselsan’s JF-17 activities will expand beyond ASELPOD, even though the company offers tactical data-link terminals, integrated avionics and electronic warfare and electronic countermeasures (ECM) systems for combat aircraft.
The forthcoming induction of the T129 ATAK attack helicopter (story , 20 of the 30 T129Bs slated for Pakistan will be equipped with Aselsan’s EW/ECM suite, which includes radio-frequency jamming) and the Pakistan Navy’s MILGEM ADA corvette (story ) and Agosta 90B submarine upgrade programmes will give Aselsan more opportunities in Pakistan, be it electro-optical and infrared (EO/IR) turrets, electronic support measures (ESM) systems and, potentially, radar and sonar sensors.
Since 2010, Aselsan had primarily supplied software-defined radio (SDR) kits to Pakistan.
Aselsan supplied targeting pods for Pakistan's JF-17 fighters. (Image: Aselsan)
Details
Published: 01 August 2018
It was recently confirmed through Aselsan's Annual Yearbook for 2017 that the company's ASELPOD advanced targeting pod was successfully integrated to and tested from the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) JF-17 THUNDER multi-role fighter in 2017. The PAF ordered eight ASELPODs for U$25 million from Aselsan in 2016, with deliveries in November 2016 as well as September and February 2017.
Pakistan was the launch export customer of the ASELPOD, having procured the ASELPOD in a bid to provide the JF-17 with precision-strike ground attack capabilities. By deploying the ASELPOD, the JF-17 is able to deploy laser-guided bombs and, if equipped, laser-guided air-to-ground missiles.
Though Aselsan saidat IDEAS2016 that it anticipates additional ASELPOD orders from Pakistan, it is unclear if the PAF has made another order. That said, the Daily Sabah newspaer reported that Pakistan ordered another batch for $24.9 million, citing Aselsan’s disclosure on the Turkish government’s Public Disclosure Platform (KAP) in May 2017.
It is unclear if Aselsan’s JF-17 activities will expand beyond ASELPOD, even though the company offers tactical data-link terminals, integrated avionics and electronic warfare and electronic countermeasures (ECM) systems for combat aircraft.
The forthcoming induction of the T129 ATAK attack helicopter (story , 20 of the 30 T129Bs slated for Pakistan will be equipped with Aselsan’s EW/ECM suite, which includes radio-frequency jamming) and the Pakistan Navy’s MILGEM ADA corvette (story ) and Agosta 90B submarine upgrade programmes will give Aselsan more opportunities in Pakistan, be it electro-optical and infrared (EO/IR) turrets, electronic support measures (ESM) systems and, potentially, radar and sonar sensors.
Since 2010, Aselsan had primarily supplied software-defined radio (SDR) kits to Pakistan.
Aselsan supplied targeting pods for Pakistan's JF-17 fighters. (Image: Aselsan)
Details
Published: 01 August 2018
Last edited by a moderator:
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One thing the PAF Chief, ACM Mujahid Anwar Khan said on Monday. ‘Whatever capabilities the Indian Air Force acquires, like the Rafale/Meteor BVR combo’ he said, ‘the Pakistan Air Force will match it - the balance has to be maintained. Have no doubt about that.’
One thing the PAF Chief, ACM Mujahid Anwar Khan said on Monday. ‘Whatever capabilities the Indian Air Force acquires, like the Rafale/Meteor BVR combo’ he said, ‘the Pakistan Air Force will match it - the balance has to be maintained. Have no doubt about that.’
Last edited by a moderator: