Chinese Economics Thread

Sunday at 6:34 PM
Tuesday at 5:25 PM
now though
China trade delegation to travel to Washington on January 13 to sign phase one deal
  • China delegation reschedules US trip after US President Donald Trump unilaterally announced January 15 date for ‘high representatives’ from Beijing to sign
  • Trump’s eagerness to claim big ‘win’ from phase one deal contrasts with Beijing’s more measured approach

so follow the link
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if interested
and I greet those who didn't believe
China, U.S. to sign phase one trade agreement next week
now the source is
Xinhua| 2020-01-09 16:36:17
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Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
I understand with the Armed Forces banning TikTok if they feel national security is at risk.

However, this is NOT what the article is talking about.

What the US Government Committee on Foreign Investment (CFIUS) is threatening is forcing divesture, this already happened with Grindr (gay dating app)



Government forcing a company to sell part of a company just because the ownership is foreign is ridiculous. There is a certain twisted logic behind the Grindr forced sale, clearly the US government is afraid of Chinese spies getting their hands on highly-placed "closeted" individuals (tolerance is lip service), but forcing property sale just because of success is absurd.

Reminds me of Canadian history when Canadian government seized Japanese-Canadian property.

Reminds of soviet history when the soviet government seized kulak property

Who is the planned economy here? China needs to treat American companies as extensions of the American state. Can you name a single american company which is independent from state interference?
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I understand with the Armed Forces banning TikTok if they feel national security is at risk.

However, this is NOT what the article is talking about.

What the US Government Committee on Foreign Investment (CFIUS) is threatening is forcing divesture, this already happened with Grindr (gay dating app)



Government forcing a company to sell part of a company just because the ownership is foreign is ridiculous. There is a certain twisted logic behind the Grindr forced sale, clearly the US government is afraid of Chinese spies getting their hands on highly-placed "closeted" individuals (tolerance is lip service), but forcing property sale just because of success is absurd.

Reminds me of Canadian history when Canadian government seized Japanese-Canadian property.


Its not bad actually. It means money returned to China. This has to happen more, not less. CFIUS unintentionally doing China a big favor.

In principle its not any different from requiring a foreign company setting up shop to require part local ownership.

There is a recent example when COSCO --- I don't mean COSTCO I mean COSCO, the Chinese shipping company --- bought out OOCL, which is one of the shipping giants in the world, and is Hong Kong based.

OOCL owns and operates the Port of Los Angeles. This means by direct extension COSCO owns the port. CFIUS would not have this and requested that COSCO sell the port. Which they did for a hefty sum. That means greenbacks lining up COSCO's pockets. Who is to say that COSCO complained? They didn't. In all irony COSCO-OOCL still has to provide management services for the Port of Los Angeles as part of a service contract.

One has to question that with Chinese companies they now have to make greater accountancy of their investments, makes smarter investments. Tencent recently bought a part of Japanese games developer Platinum Games, well known for their Bayonetta and Nier Automata series. They also threw money on Reddit. What for? Why not make better investments within China? What the heck Tencent is doing throwing money on the Top Gun 2 movie?

There are a lot of ridiculous things in this world that feels like blatant overreach, for example, EU looking to disband or dismember Google on its own.

In the future, you don't know how long this Tiktok fad will last. The tech industry teaches us that things are highly transcendental, like what happened to AOL, Yahoo and MySpace. Better to sell part of Tiktok while its red hot. You can probably get tens of billions easy. When the fad fades --- jeez, Tiktok is popular with teenagers, how fleeting is that market --- those US investors would be the ones holding the losses.
 
Last edited:

plawolf

Lieutenant General
It’s ironic, hilarious and short sighted that the US is doing to TikTok exactly what they accuse China of doing - government direct interference in commercial company ownership.

It’s short sighted in that this US action creates the perfect pretext and precedent for China to seize the wholly foreign owner companies that it is allowing to be set up in China now.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Despite all the warnings, Americans are still using TikTok. They can’t scare people into not using it, so the next step is to ban it. The US has never been tested on what they believe. Now they are because they're facing a true competitor. They'll say that China doesn't allow American companies to operate in China. They've always restricted Chinese operating in the US. They want to believe all those products that say Made in China shows how the US lets China operate in the US. No, those are US corporations that exploit cheap labor in outsourcing their products to be made in China shipping them back home to sell to consumers. It's only until now when real Chinese rivals are emerging and their first reaction is to violate all the capitalist market principles they expect everyone else to follow.

TPP allowed countries to sue other countries if it were shown that country worked to undermine foreign corporate operations. That's why they didn't invite China. China would be able to sue the US up the yin yang. That's why when they say free trade, it's not really free trade. It should be self-explanatory but why do countries still negotiate with other countries and separately with every country that is member in every free trade agreement you hear about? It's because every country has their own sectors in their economy they want to protect that they do not want it to fall under "free trade". It's a misnomer to call it free trade. They did expect China to eventually join TPP but by then they would have all the negotiating power that the US would be able to dictate. But they have no power if China doesn't join. The US is afraid of China's economic power because China is the only consumer market on par with the US and will get only stronger. That translates into geo-political power. Countries want to sell to China. Does TPP only allow members to trade with each other and close everyone else out? No. So unless the US is going to give all the money these countries want to make from China to not trade with China, what power does TPP have?

The American psyche says they have to be in control of everything. If they're not in control of everything, that means they're under threat. They don’t know what the Chinese will do on their own so they only think of the worst. They fear the unknown. They don't control China. China is a threat. It's that simple. Everything else is just an excuse. They fear TikTok? What makes TikTok a threat? Because it collects data of its users like they were designed to when the US first created apps? They're that paranoid because they want to believe every one of them is that important enough to be spied upon. How would the Chinese government exploit the data of all of TikTok's primarily young users? Maybe drive them to buy Chinese products which is what US companies want to do in China hence why it's so important for the US to have everyone embrace Americans values. The US is against Confucius Institutes which primarily teaches Chinese languages. There have been some school districts in the US where parents protested the Chinese language being taught in schools because they considered it a form of Chinese brainwashing. So now you know what the purpose is of Americans needing to spread their values and speak English only. They're brainwashing people. They don’t want understanding between peoples using a common language. They want fear and hatred of the unknown. That’s how they keep people in line. Look at how many groups historically having the West as their oppressor fear China more. China has done nothing to them in history and yet they fear China more than their oppressor.

A long read.

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The Administration’s argument, in its bluntest form, frames China as a hardened foe, too distant from American values to be susceptible to diplomacy. In April, Kiron Skinner, Pompeo’s director of policy planning, said in a public talk, “This is a fight with a really different civilization.” She added that China represented “the first time that we will have a great power competitor that is not Caucasian.” (The comments caused an uproar. In August, Skinner left the State Department.) Behind closed doors, Trump aides dismiss Skinner’s invocation of race.

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Like I've been saying, the act isn't the crime. Crimes are determined by who commits the act and who's the victim of that act.

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Decoupling works against the US and is only good news for China. The US has always worked to isolate and undermine China so it's the same business as usual. What's different is more and more the US is losing control thus China is less affected by their attempts to undermine and isolate China. Decoupling means everything in the US is going to be more expensive hence can't compete. The US can end outsourcing. The rest of the world won't be doing that. And when faced against even their own allies’ products, they won’t be able to compete. The wage disparity in the world is because for them to be in control of the world, the rest of the world has to be poorer than them. So don't believe in the nonsense about how China is destroying American human rights and democratic values when for even longer making money has always been more important.

China is unique and that's why it's going be very hard to replicate in another country in their attempts to find an alternative to China especially when that risks creating another Chinese monster that's not under their control in the future. The US is not going to win because it needs the world to go along. Decoupling means China and the US go their separate ways. That’s impossible for the US because China just existing is a threat. They want everyone to be just like them so they can be in control. How do you dissuade their fears? Blind obedience. Do not question or challenge them. Everything always comes back to them being in control. They do everything the bad guys do and more, so what makes them different? Because they’re the good guys. Don’t think. Don’t question. Don’t challenge. Blindly obey… And then they’ll like you.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Despite all the warnings, Americans are still using TikTok. They can’t scare people into not using it, so the next step is to ban it. The US has never been tested on what they believe. Now they are because they're facing a true competitor. They'll say that China doesn't allow American companies to operate in China. They've always restricted Chinese operating in the US. They want to believe all those products that say Made in China shows how the US lets China operate in the US. No, those are US corporations that exploit cheap labor in outsourcing their products to be made in China shipping them back home to sell to consumers. It's only until now when real Chinese rivals are emerging and their first reaction is to violate all the capitalist market principles they expect everyone else to follow.

TPP allowed countries to sue other countries if it were shown that country worked to undermine foreign corporate operations. That's why they didn't invite China. China would be able to sue the US up the yin yang. That's why when they say free trade, it's not really free trade. It should be self-explanatory but why do countries still negotiate with other countries and separately with every country that is member in every free trade agreement you hear about? It's because every country has their own sectors in their economy they want to protect that they do not want it to fall under "free trade". It's a misnomer to call it free trade. They did expect China to eventually join TPP but by then they would have all the negotiating power that the US would be able to dictate. But they have no power if China doesn't join. The US is afraid of China's economic power because China is the only consumer market on par with the US and will get only stronger. That translates into geo-political power. Countries want to sell to China. Does TPP only allow members to trade with each other and close everyone else out? No. So unless the US is going to give all the money these countries want to make from China to not trade with China, what power does TPP have?

The American psyche says they have to be in control of everything. If they're not in control of everything, that means they're under threat. They don’t know what the Chinese will do on their own so they only think of the worst. They fear the unknown. They don't control China. China is a threat. It's that simple. Everything else is just an excuse. They fear TikTok? What makes TikTok a threat? Because it collects data of its users like they were designed to when the US first created apps? They're that paranoid because they want to believe every one of them is that important enough to be spied upon. How would the Chinese government exploit the data of all of TikTok's primarily young users? Maybe drive them to buy Chinese products which is what US companies want to do in China hence why it's so important for the US to have everyone embrace Americans values. The US is against Confucius Institutes which primarily teaches Chinese languages. There have been some school districts in the US where parents protested the Chinese language being taught in schools because they considered it a form of Chinese brainwashing. So now you know what the purpose is of Americans needing to spread their values and speak English only. They're brainwashing people. They don’t want understanding between peoples using a common language. They want fear and hatred of the unknown. That’s how they keep people in line. Look at how many groups historically having the West as their oppressor fear China more. China has done nothing to them in history and yet they fear China more than their oppressor.

A long read.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!




Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Like I've been saying, the act isn't the crime. Crimes are determined by who commits the act and who's the victim of that act.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Decoupling works against the US and is only good news for China. The US has always worked to isolate and undermine China so it's the same business as usual. What's different is more and more the US is losing control thus China is less affected by their attempts to undermine and isolate China. Decoupling means everything in the US is going to be more expensive hence can't compete. The US can end outsourcing. The rest of the world won't be doing that. And when faced against even their own allies’ products, they won’t be able to compete. The wage disparity in the world is because for them to be in control of the world, the rest of the world has to be poorer than them. So don't believe in the nonsense about how China is destroying American human rights and democratic values when for even longer making money has always been more important.

China is unique and that's why it's going be very hard to replicate in another country in their attempts to find an alternative to China especially when that risks creating another Chinese monster that's not under their control in the future. The US is not going to win because it needs the world to go along. Decoupling means China and the US go their separate ways. That’s impossible for the US because China just existing is a threat. They want everyone to be just like them so they can be in control. How do you dissuade their fears? Blind obedience. Do not question or challenge them. Everything always comes back to them being in control. They do everything the bad guys do and more, so what makes them different? Because they’re the good guys. Don’t think. Don’t question. Don’t challenge. Blindly obey… And then they’ll like you.


Just one comment.

The US wanted China to join TPP, so that US corporations could sue the Chinese government and win.

Whilst China can do the same against the US government, there aren't as many opportunities to so do.

There is so much more Chinese government involvement in the Chinese economy.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Reminds of soviet history when the soviet government seized kulak property

Who is the planned economy here? China needs to treat American companies as extensions of the American state. Can you name a single american company which is independent from state interference?

Exactly, this reminds of when I was a young economic student, and I said in class:

That there is no such thing as "totally free market" economies anywhere in the world, including the USA, where at the time most of the students were stating the USA as a shining beacon of light of "free market" ecomomy!

Only my tutor and a few other students see what I was getting at!

And now, Trump has demonstrated what I've been saying all those years ago. Thank you POTUS!
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Just one comment.

The US wanted China to join TPP, so that US corporations could sue the Chinese government and win.

Whilst China can do the same against the US government, there aren't as many opportunities to so do.

There is so much more Chinese government involvement in the Chinese economy.

All countries are involved in their own economies.
 
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