JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

timepass said:

Nothing new, repeating of same old mantra ...... Since 2007 I am with SDF & saw such type of posts hundred of times in different scenarios....

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Indeed, and they are still valid, since in mind of these countless Pakistani-fan-boy's wishes like "we can get anything" - I know it sounds rude, but to summarize it I don't know another word that to call them "teeny-wet-dreams" - ranging from J-20, J-16, JH-7A, Type 052D, even 055 and 075 are mentioned up to the joke posted somewhere "we will get the Liaoning when the second carrier is ready" nothing happened since then. What did you really get of all these "we can get anything"!?

Yes, as @plawolf perfectly explained, you got the Type 054, the PL-12 and a few other gems, but nothing of the latest high end toys. As such the here more than once quoted sentence from president Xi "what do you want from us" is surely correct if you add the the sentence "what do you want from us of the realistic, reasonable things we have on offer and you can afford". But since such additional phrases are barely mentioned in the public - since they are known by all - it is not surprising that the fan boys again start to hyperventilate.

And now back to the topic.

timepass said:

Nothing new, repeating of same old mantra ...... Since 2007 I am with SDF & saw such type of posts hundred of times in different scenarios....

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So you really should know better by now. I mean just how many times have this ‘mantra’ been proven false? And how many counter examples do you need?

Rejecting long-standing and time tested consensus based on real world examples and instead continuing to believe in theories with a total lack of corroborate proof is not rational.

Is it possible that China has abruptly changed its longstanding policy towards arms sales to Pakistan? Sure, but where is the proof? And no, 054 and even recent sub sales to Pakistan are not proof of a change of policy, but rather reinforcement of the long established Chinese arms sales policy of China allowing the sale of customised versions of PLA in-service platforms that are superior to what the PLA itself fields, so long as said platform is not the best that China has where a replacement is not imminent.

If China sold Pakistan 055s, J20s, KJ2000s, 095 SSNs etc, then that would be strong evidence of a change in policy (depending on timeframe of course, selling such systems decades down the line is a completely different ball game to selling them next year for example), and can be considered proof if no next gen replacement appeared in China within 5 years of the delivery of the first export examples. But nothing like that has happened before, and short of a major conflict, it is just not in China’s interests to risk exposing its best weapons to western and American spies for mere cash. Not when there is a real and growing chance that Chinese forces may clash directly with American led western forces, in which case any such sensitive data leaks would lead to lost lives and potentially even lost battles and wars.

Anyways, too much pointless rehashing of old debates, forgot what I came here for.

Some DCS combat videos involving the JF17

Dogfights
Win against F15

Lost against F18

BVR
SD10 domination (but the general opinion is that the AMRAAM is not performing to spec in game).

Long vid, but very interesting watch, especially the tacview analysis at the end

Stand-off strike plus BVR

plawolf said:

Anyways, too much pointless rehashing of old debates, forgot what I came here for.

Some DCS combat videos involving the JF17

Dogfights
Win against F15

Lost against F18

BVR
SD10 domination (but the general opinion is that the AMRAAM is not performing to spec in game).

Long vid, but very interesting watch, especially the tacview analysis at the end

Stand-off strike plus BVR

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Does the simulator use real stats from the JF-17 and other aircraft? Also I wonder if the dashboard is accurate.

siegecrossbow said:

Does the simulator use real stats from the JF-17 and other aircraft? Also I wonder if the dashboard is accurate.

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Its regarded as the most acurate sim available to the public, stats are real but obviosly based on a mixture of official data and educated guesses.

Here are som vids of F-18 pilots trying it out

I

siegecrossbow said:

Does the simulator use real stats from the JF-17 and other aircraft? Also I wonder if the dashboard is accurate.

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There was an interview with one of the developers where it was explicitly asked if there were official sources for JF17 specs, and there was deathly silence, which everyone took as an affirmative.

A new dogfighting video, this time against an F-14 Tomcat. Watching these JF-17 DCS vids (it's already got the nickname "Jeff" in the community) really gave me a new appreciation for the plane. A little bee with a big sting.

It’s an amazing marketing move, the plane is generating a huge amount of positive buzz.

Rumors do indicate that Deka got some insider info...
Also interesting to see how the JF-17 is so simple to cold-start, a caveman could do it! No convoluted multi-turbine startup sequence as the F-16, but literally a few knobs here, a dataslate inserted there, a few digits entered into the INS and finally, pressing the startup button for 4 seconds and you are good to go. This really shows how user friendly and easy to learn this plane was designed from ground up.

With the involvement of JF-17 in February, now DCS buzz, generates some interest with the new Malaysian tender.

The only fighters in this class are JF-17, Gripen, and Tejas. There are so far only 16 airforce (non-prototype) units in service with IAF of mark 1 versions. I didn't realise it was this low a number. They've been building mark 1 for years it seems. Talk of mark 1A and 2 and so on but work will take ages. No country will seriously induct that fighter political favours or not.

The newest Gripen will have an export purchase price about three times as much as I would expect blk 3 to cost. Despite this, I'm sure it'll be a better fighter overall. Gripen's definitely got better performance; higher thrust to weight, climb, g limits, heavier payload, more hardpoints, lower wing loading, better supersonic agility due to canard design. Likely has better EW, ECM, avionics, sensor fusion, and sensors.

Tejas' Uttam radar is still not in IAF service and who knows how long before it is ready. Even then it's assuming its performance is any good. If they induct the Tejas with Uttam and Astra in great numbers, I'll assume its pretty good. Malaysia shall wait and see rather than play the guinea pig for India. If Malaysia ends up selecting a fighter in this class (one of these three) I'll bet it's the Thunder. The only thing working against the Thunder is potential concerns over relations with China and sourcing parts from China and/or Russia. Re Gripen, they've got similar concerns with the US. Tejas parts with the US too.