J-10 Thread IV

lcloo

Captain
Large missiles points downward on the ground because when the aircraft at level flight they actually become straight to airflow since the nose will be angled upwards.

wingtip missiles are sometimes angled to control the wing tip vortexes + the reason above.
Very good points, and I must say they are valid but besides the AGM and wing tip AAM others like fuel tank, irons bombs, rockets etc are fitted at level angle while on the ground.

So we have different objects hanging at different angles. Need further enlightenment on this.
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
Would you consider J-15 is 4++ gen ?

No. Let's take the J-10C. It has AESA and new generation systems (e.g. EW system). It also has PL-15 and PL-10 compatibility (with new HMD). For WVR J-15 as well as the J-11B are limited to PL-8. Radar is mechanically scanned. Doesn't mean the systems in the J-11B and J-15 are bad, its just that the J-10B/C, J-16 and Su-35 are at a different level. Only the J-20 is superior to them. Unfortunately, there is no news of current J-11B getting J-11D style upgrade.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
No, and I won't even rate the J-10B/C or J-16 as well as the Su-35 a 4++... in fact I don't like these too many "+++++" since this is most of all a marketing plot.

Is that because you disagree with the whole 4+/4.5 generation marketing or is it because you don't consider J-10C, J-16, Su-35 as fighters comparable to late modern F-15, F-16, F-18, Typhoon, and Rafale? I think the former group is at a similar or better level. All operate using ESA radars, have upgraded weapons, seem to feature new cockpits, EW, ECM, sensor fusion (assumed but pretty much is software and a relative strong point for both Russia and China).

J-10C, J-16, and Su-35 all arrived much later than the first block Rafale and Typhoons. Typhoon in European airforces do not use CAPTOR AESA radars. Rafale is a similar story but IAF Rafale may be using AESA. The whole 4.5 gen is to differentiate between early 4th gen and MLU 4th gens but the transition is not obvious and the rest is marketing. However given the age of upgrades and what the fighters supposedly are equipped with, I'd say all of them can be considered 4.5 or 4+ gen, whatever one wishes to call it.

J-15 came out later than the early build eurocanards but it still seems to be lacking those higher end sensors and electronic equipment. Perhaps because the time was spent making it corrosive environment worthy and carrier capable. Therefore it shouldn't be considered in that same category even if it was introduced in the appropriate era in which those technologies were available to the J-15's designers. I think J-15 will continue and the variant upgraded for years to come. It offers too much potential as a carrier fighter. However it does need a stealthy partner with similar range and cruise speed. That future J-15, if it gets produced, will no doubt be "4.5 gen".
 

by78

General
Riveting images...

48942078353_733955cb6e_h.jpg

48942078263_e672d050ee_b.jpg
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
No. Let's take the J-10C. It has AESA and new generation systems (e.g. EW system). It also has PL-15 and PL-10 compatibility (with new HMD). For WVR J-15 as well as the J-11B are limited to PL-8. Radar is mechanically scanned. Doesn't mean the systems in the J-11B and J-15 are bad, its just that the J-10B/C, J-16 and Su-35 are at a different level. Only the J-20 is superior to them. Unfortunately, there is no news of current J-11B getting J-11D style upgrade.
Gen 4.5s have some degree of baked-in RCS reduction. I don't know if J-10B/C has that.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Gen 4.5s have some degree of baked-in RCS reduction. I don't know if J-10B/C has that.

J-16 supposedly reduced the flanker RCS dramatically (clean layout) just by using a RAM surface treatment. But it is still a large bird and has engine fan exposed completely. It may be considered 4.5 gen in every other respect but the J-10b/c will still have a lower RCS purely due to smaller size and hidden engine face + DSI intakes. If the electronics, sensor suite, and software are all up to the J-16's level, they should also be considered 4.5 gen. I'd say DSI, hidden engine, and the apparent improvement on surface quality can all be considered efforts to reduce RCS although it isn't taking it to the Typhoon and Rafale's level with serrated edges or J-16's RAM paint.
 
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