solarz
Brigadier
Sorry, what does this have to do with HK?
Hong-Kong Protests
- Thread starter Pika
- Start date
Sorry, what does this have to do with HK?
No, you are wrong. The protests actually do happen in mainland China, and the government listens. Nearly all these protests are about local issues; Beijing almost never needs to act. They are handled locally.
For example, just this summer, against the building of an incinerator for burning foreign trash. The local people disagreed with the government, and understandably so: why should they endure polluted air so foreigners can benefit? The protest made the local government cancel the incinerator and promise not to build it without the approval of the people.
Nearly all the protests in the mainland are like that: they are local rallies about local issues. Beijing may actually be quietly encouraging them, as they can counter some corrupt or overbearing officials.
As the Wuhan incident proves, Zhongnanhai is not as inflexible as you apparently think it should be. Usually it leads, but sometimes it follows.
Beijing doesn't always have to do what the local people want. But it can, if it chooses to do so. It does not have to be as rigid as you.
Good, thanks. Rather late (just last month), but a good start. The pro-Beijing rallies need to grow much larger before the world will take them seriously.
No, I understood what you were saying. You simply weren't making much sense.
Adding to this aspect of the discussion
It is an interesting point to make, and especially relevant to this thread. The central government has actually been quite pragmatic in dealing with issues. This is especially true when it comes to climate change and the environment (A source of many protests in Western countries right now). The number #1 producer of solar panels and solar power output is China. China will aggressively close coal mines (coincidentally, Trump says he will do his best to keep US coal mines open). Shenzhen has moved to all electric buses and soon will move to all electric taxis as well. Also of note, Chinese cities have aggressively rebuilt bike lanes once seen as backwards.
It shows that the central government is leading by example, especially in this area which is a global issue. Could you imagine someone like Justin Trudeau converting half of all buses in Canada to electric power (population of SZ is about half of Canada total)? He wouldn't stop patting himself on the back!
Back to the relevance to HK, I think the fact that the protests went from Anti-Extradition to "5 demands", now just violence and calls for US/UK recolonization, speaks to just how detached from reality these people are.
The idea that 1C2S (whether in favour of central government or pro-dem camp) is not teneable is also a false pretense. Macau has had no protests of this kind, and in fact welcomed PLA assistance to clean up after Typhoon Haiyan. HK government would crap themselves if in that position.
Furthermore, in response to civilian self-defense. I have posed this question before. Fujian people of North Point have picked fights with protestors. I have noticed there are no MTR closures east of Fortress Hill, are the protestors afraid of these areas? Are there groups ready to fight them? There are also HK New Territories villagers (if you are familiar with HK). Media tends to blame Triads, but I think they are choosing to ignore history (North Point Fujianese were aligned with CCP back in 60's, NT Villagers rebelled against British authorities, it is a proud point to their heritage and earned them special privileges) Since I don't live there, I can't say definitively.
A final point, I see the pictures of the huge numbers of people in the street, but frankly I have not met too many supporters in Canada of the protesters except non-Chinese. I think it speaks to the long reach of state sponsored psych-ops. This reminds of FLG, how they can have worldwide media outlets around the world (Epoch Times, NTDTV), and continually hold the Shen Yun Dance and Orchestra shows (who has known anyone to ever actually buy tickets for these events? I only known people that get them for free).
solarz
Brigadier
Macau is completely different. Macau doesn't serve as safe haven and base of operations for all kinds of anti-China elements, and part of the reason for that is it was simply overlooked in favor of HK.
The greatest flaw with 1C2S is that it allows the infestation of hostile propaganda with no way to oppose its spread. Those terrorists were not indoctrinated during the colonial era, they were indoctrinated after the return!
I'm sorry I haven't kept up with discussions here, but my phone is playing up. Keep loosing WI-FI, it just comes and go.
Anyway, I hope you guys can access this clip. As I had said before, I'm a IT phob, and have no ideal how this works.
Anyway, I have been hearing rumors of young students were paid protest. And have seen clips of money exchange. Students fighting amongest themselves over money.
But not sure it's propaganda or mis- information. And have therefore refrain from posting here. Anyway, I saw this clip of this taxi driver, and he seem convinced of what he heard in his cab about teachers taking 16 year olds to demonstrate for HK$500 and HK$1000 for a bit more.
Take this and make of it what you will.
Anyway, I hope you guys can access this clip. As I had said before, I'm a IT phob, and have no ideal how this works.
Anyway, I have been hearing rumors of young students were paid protest. And have seen clips of money exchange. Students fighting amongest themselves over money.
But not sure it's propaganda or mis- information. And have therefore refrain from posting here. Anyway, I saw this clip of this taxi driver, and he seem convinced of what he heard in his cab about teachers taking 16 year olds to demonstrate for HK$500 and HK$1000 for a bit more.
Take this and make of it what you will.
Thanks, but I'm hopeless at IT. I mean, even now, I haven't got a clue what is liveleak and verystream! Sorry.
Don't remember if this is actually posted this or not.
I don't think this is flaw of 1C2S, I think this is flaw of HK itself. How did the education system get so bad?
How can a student not be expelled for this? They are saying they are supporting him? This is ridiculous, can you imagine as a parent, would you welcome someone like that in your kid's school?
Macau also has religious schools (one article I've seen said 80% of students attend them), but it seems like it is only in post-handover HK where such indoctrination occurs.
Some of the discussion a while back was how PRC is not able to handle non-state media to get control of the story. This is probably true of the education system too. This aspect of the government was weak in the early post-handover period, which is what we see now.
solarz
Brigadier
That's the point: the flaw of the 1C2S is that it prevents the central government from taking action when a Chinese city is being morally corrupted and destroyed from within.
I believe DXP foresaw this possibility, and that is the purpose of the HK PLA garrison. Unfortunately, they are a measure of last resort, so we are seeing HK being destroyed piece-meal right now.
Jura The idiot
General
asking Mods to adjudicate:
#2268 MrCrazyBoyRavi, Today at 8:27 AM
(now pressed Report window with "goading" inside)
#2268 MrCrazyBoyRavi, Today at 8:27 AM
(now pressed Report window with "goading" inside)
Jura The idiot
General
the article describes drawing parallel between HK protests, and London and Barcelona protests; perhaps the most interesting is the sentence "Last Friday the Spanish authorities shut down a popular protest website which called for the creation of a “second Hong Kong” in Catalonia."
China accuses West of double standard over Hong Kong protests after disorder in streets of Barcelona and London
follow the link if interested
China accuses West of double standard over Hong Kong protests after disorder in streets of Barcelona and London
- Foreign ministry says politicians and media that support violence will see their stance backfire
- Supporters of Catalan independence have copied tactics from Hong Kong protests and clashed with police after the jailing of separatist leaders
follow the link if interested