Hong-Kong Protests

Jura The idiot · Oct 10, 2019

supersnoop said:
Yes, it is 100% needed here. I'm assuming you are native to your country. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Many of us are "visible minorities" in where we live. As a result, we have to put up with a special kind of BS.
When China does something bad, we are expected to perform Самокритика (I think you can read Russian right?) to defend ourselves.
I can use 1 million other examples, but I went with that one. This is how many of us feel about the protests right now.
If we don't support the rioters, suddenly we are "against freedom" or something like traitors.

in fact my question 19 minutes ago was directed at the Mod, actually I add one:

supersnoop
said

How can some fool like Mike Pompeo talk about ...

so what if somebody now said (sorry I don't know the name of Chinese Minister of Foreign Affairs -- personally I of course would not use it below even if I knew it):

"How can some fool like ... that name ... talk about ..."

huh

Quickie · Oct 10, 2019

Xsizor said:
I don't think it shall make any difference. Who are you trying to convince ? Who are you trying to preach to?
Confirmation bias is a huge thing. People always operate on some set biases,prejudice and understanding and they shall resist mighty to see that they were right all along. Even if Truth makes itself clear, they shall miss it.
Those who are in search of truth OR are really open to see the finer details of an issue will always find it. But such people are rare. Most are simple folks- just like many HKers or many other Humans around this planet. They don't care.
That being said ... Change in popular opinion can indeed be inflicted. Such a change needs either time or impactful events or both.

The Only people who needs to know fully about the precarious situation are the common folks of the mainland. Theirs is the only opinion that matter. The disparity in the reporting, the biases in the media outside of the GFW are all on full display. And burning the national flags and attacking mainlanders ... Oh my oh my... Talk about overkill.

I think that these HK protest supporters may not empathize the same way if they ever do. Even if they see bystanders beaten to half-dead, as opposed to most of us feeling sick of it, they see it as something that has to happen in the name of "freedom and democracy".

Afterall millions of people died in wars imposed upon them, without ever asking them for permission, in the name of those two words.

solarz · Oct 10, 2019

Quickie said:
I think that these HK protest supporters may not empathize the same way if they ever do. Even if they see bystanders beaten to half-dead, as opposed to most of us feeling sick of it, they see it as something that has to happen in the name of "freedom and democracy".

Afterall millions of people died in wars imposed upon them, without ever asking them for permission, in the name of those two words.

The HK unrest has all the characteristics of a color revolution, from Ukraine to Libya to Syria. What makes HK unique is that it is a political stalemate. The local government is unable to end the unrest, but the terrorists are also unable to topple the local government, and while the local government stands, Beijing is unwilling to intervene.

The city is like a covered pot simmering over a slow fire.

Equation · Oct 10, 2019

supersnoop said:
I heard from a friend of a friend from HK, you can call them a "True Believer"
They said they have no problem with PLA intervention in HK because it would destroy Chinese economy due to sanctions.
The other scenario is Western powers intervention (I assume they were not aware of Eight Power Alliance).

I told my buddy, how messed up that thinking is. Destroying the Chinese economy means plunging countless people into poverty, for what? How is that freedom? It would destroy the HK economy too (response was "Doesn't matter as long as we get freedom")

Starting a war over this is even crazier. Unbelievable, you think it is okay for your family (and countless others) to potentially die for your politics! (Though I believe they expected their family to escape to Canada because they are Canadian citizens and have money)

I told my friend that I will give them the foreign intervention they want, but probably not the kind they expect, lol
This picture is not appropriate (and probably shouldn't be posted), but I think it is funny in this context (I don't believe it violates any rules, but take it down if it crosses any lines)View attachment 54549

Why is a Miami Dolphins arming themselves with a SAW (squad automatic weapon or what looks to be)?

I know their season hasn't been to a good start (0-5) lately.

Equation · Oct 10, 2019

solarz said:
The HK unrest has all the characteristics of a color revolution, from Ukraine to Libya to Syria. What makes HK unique is that it is a political stalemate. The local government is unable to end the unrest, but the terrorists are also unable to topple the local government, and while the local government stands, Beijing is unwilling to intervene.

The city is like a covered pot simmering over a slow fire.

Yeah the longer this goes on the less chances the terrorist will be able to succeed in their goals. Already people world wide get to witness the bias and hypocrisy of the Western main stream media trying to instill their narrative upon others at any cost. I believe that's why Beijing has been very patient about this. They want the China haters to continue shooting themselves to death.

Blitzo · Oct 10, 2019

supersnoop said:
Yes, it is 100% needed here. I'm assuming you are native to your country. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Many of us are "visible minorities" in where we live. As a result, we have to put up with a special kind of BS.
When China does something bad, we are expected to perform Самокритика (I think you can read Russian right?) to defend ourselves.
I can use 1 million other examples, but I went with that one. This is how many of us feel about the protests right now.
If we don't support the rioters, suddenly we are "against freedom" or something like traitors.

I think that particular subject is very much off topic for this thread, and I'll be editing that specific section from your original post.
I do understand why you mentioned it as an example of bias and/or selective reporting -- while that can be defended as a relevant topic for this thread, the specific example you mention I think is deviating a bit much.

Brumby · Oct 10, 2019

Gatekeeper said:
This is hypocrisy at its highest! a British baroness said, HK government invoking colonial emergency law is in breach of the joint declaration! This is the very same law the British created to squash the demostrations in 1967 for crying out loud!

You are simply commenting from ignorance.

The joint declaration was what gave birth to the Basic Law which is the constitution of HK post 1997 under the one country two systems agreement. This means all laws henceforth are subject to the Basic Law and its governing framework. It also mean that colonial laws prior to 1997 were sent to the bin if it contravenes the Basic Law and any legislative laws post 1997. What Carrie Lam has done is to take a colonial law out out of the bin as if HK is still under the British. This is undermining the Basic Law and the joint agreement - period.

If she wants emergency powers to ban mask then under the Basic Law, the legislative process requires tabling, motion, and passing by the legislative body and then enacted into law by the CE. This is what is meant by rule of law. What Carrie Lam is doing is typical of how China operates and that is rule by law. Pick and choose any law at its convenience to suppress its people since there is no judicial process

PanAsian · Oct 10, 2019

solarz said:
I was just reading articles on Blizzard's suspension of that Hearthstone player, and the ignorance displayed by the writers and the commenters are comical. At least in the news comments some people know about the violence. In there, nobody seems to have an inkling what is actually happening in Hong Kong, they just think they are standing up for human rights and freedom of speech.

Against this tide of ignorance, I simply don't see what good a few posts can do. Frankly, reading the internet these days is depressing.

I hear you about it being depressing, and when the going gets tough the tough gets going!

Xsizor said:
I don't think it shall make any difference. Who are you trying to convince ? Who are you trying to preach to?
Confirmation bias is a huge thing. People always operate on some set biases,prejudice and understanding and they shall resist mighty to see that they were right all along. Even if Truth makes itself clear, they shall miss it.
Those who are in search of truth OR are really open to see the finer details of an issue will always find it. But such people are rare. Most are simple folks- just like many HKers or many other Humans around this planet. They don't care.
That being said ... Change in popular opinion can indeed be inflicted. Such a change needs either time or impactful events or both.

The Only people who needs to know fully about the precarious situation are the common folks of the mainland. Theirs is the only opinion that matter. The disparity in the reporting, the biases in the media outside of the GFW are all on full display. And burning the national flags and attacking mainlanders ... Oh my oh my... Talk about overkill.

When facing active lies and manipulation only by someone putting the truth out there can others find the truth. The more people putting the truth out there the even more people can find the truth. Every little bit helps or hurts.

Brumby · Oct 10, 2019

nugroho said:
In your post before you said that we must stay in topics, but, read your post above, is there anything concern " hong kong protest " thread, Don't be double standard. Your post was all about China history and you could not understand it.

If you wish to pick a fight with me you should at least get your facts lined up.

First up. I did not initiate the comments about loyalty and Yue Fei. I was responding to a poster who was virtual signalling on the idea of loyalty, the HK protest and holding up Yue Fei as the standard. My suggestion was first to look at the CCP's prioritization of it before questioning the HK protesters.

Don't assume I do not understand Chinese history.

I agree that off topic post should remain so. The problem is this thread is often so off topic that probably more than 50 % should be removed. Better still, this thread should be locked up.

KYli · Oct 10, 2019

Brumby said:
You are simply commenting from ignorance.

The joint declaration was what gave birth to the Basic Law which is the constitution of HK post 1997 under the one country two systems agreement. This means all laws henceforth are subject to the Basic Law and its governing framework. It also mean that colonial laws prior to 1997 were sent to the bin if it contravenes the Basic Law and any legislative laws post 1997. What Carrie Lam has done is to take a colonial law out out of the bin as if HK is still under the British. This is undermining the Basic Law and the joint agreement - period.

If she wants emergency powers to ban mask then under the Basic Law, the legislative process requires tabling, motion, and passing by the legislative body and then enacted into law by the CE. This is what is meant by rule of law. What Carrie Lam is doing is typical of how China operates and that is rule by law. Pick and choose any law at its convenience to suppress its people since there is no judicial process

Keep trying to twisted the fact as if you understand the meaning of the Basic Law. It is within Carrie Lam's power to use the Emergency Law. Article 8 of the Basic Law "The laws previously in force in Hong Kong, that is, the common law, rules of equity, ordinances, subordinate legislation and customary law shall be maintained, except for any that contravene this Law (i.e. the Basic Law), and subject to any amendment by the legislature of the (HKSAR)."

No legislative amendment or anything in the Basic Law has declared the Emergency Law to be in anyway contravenes to the Basic Law. The only thing the opposition can do is to ask the court to declare the Emergency Law illegal but automatically the NPCSC holds the power of final interpretation.

Hong-Kong Protests

Jura The idiot

General

Quickie

Colonel

solarz

Brigadier

Equation

Lieutenant General

Equation

Lieutenant General

Blitzo

Lieutenant General

Brumby

Major

PanAsian

Major

Brumby

Major

KYli

Brigadier