J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
latenlazy said:
I’ll bite. The Su-27 is 16 tons and can pull 9Gs. The only myth here is the sophistry that you need to weigh as much an F-22 to handle that many Gs. Clearly when we had this debate you weren’t reading anything I said. Next time I’d appreciate it if you don’t do flippant snipes with distorted versions of people’s arguments.
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Most tactical aircraft can pull instantaneous 9G in some part of its flight envelope under some fuel/weapon load conditions. Saying an aircraft can pull 9G doesn’t actually tell you much. To put the pulling of 9G’s on equal basis for comparison you have to specify:

1. How heavily loaded is the aircraft while pulling 9Gs

2. How fast is it going and how high is it going while pulling 9Gs. It would be a pretty amazing aircraft that can pull 9Gs at 50,000 feet.

3. How long can it sustain 9Gs and how much speed it is losing while pulling 9Gs

4. How much roll authority and yaw authority does the aircraft have while pulling 9GS.
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Richard Santos said:
There is no reason why center stick controllers would have to be be less sensitive to user input then side stick controller. The first side stick controllers appeared more sensitive because If was fixed with no movement, and sensed the force the pilot applied, where as traditional center column required significant amplitude of movement. But center column controller can also be made fixed and sentive to force applied instead of amplitude of movement.

Apparently the Soviets considered and experimented with rigid force sensitive side stick for both Su-27 and MiG-29, but rejected them and used tradition center column based on pilot feedback.
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I think is has to do with the hight of the stick and leverage of position. A center stick sits a little taller as such it takes a little more action of the pilot to shift its position.
Where a side stick sits differently and has a shorter hight.
As such the number of muscle groups used to perform equal actions change and as does the amount of movement. A stick sitting a foot off the axis has to be moved more than on sitting a few inches to get the same angle.
A center stick to needs more movement to go to a 45* angle than the smaller side stick. With training a pilot can control it but that takes some time.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
latenlazy said:
I’ll bite. The Su-27 is 16 tons and can pull 9Gs. The only myth here is the sophistry that you need to weigh as much an F-22 to handle that many Gs. Clearly when we had this debate you weren’t reading anything I said. Next time I’d appreciate it if you don’t do flippant snipes with distorted versions of people’s arguments.
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No sophistry my friend, the J-20 is a heavy aircraft with a robust structure in order to withstand up to 9G's if we are to believe the PLAAF. At no time did I state that the J-20 had to be as heavy as the F-22, but, it is NOT a 15 or 16 Ton fighter, and is no doubt within a ton or two of the F-22. It is also not a Flanker, nor is the design of its fuselage similar to a Flanker, the J-20 has a very large internal volume for weapons, avionics, and fuel, it requires extremely robust load bearing members to be able to withstand 9G's
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Richard Santos said:
Most tactical aircraft can pull instantaneous 9G in some part of its flight envelope under some fuel/weapon load conditions. Saying an aircraft can pull 9G doesn’t actually tell you much. To put the pulling of 9G’s on equal basis for comparison you have to specify:

1. How heavily loaded is the aircraft while pulling 9Gs

2. How fast is it going and how high is it going while pulling 9Gs. It would be a pretty amazing aircraft that can pull 9Gs at 50,000 feet.

3. How long can it sustain 9Gs and how much speed it is losing while pulling 9Gs

4. How much roll authority and yaw authority does the aircraft have while pulling 9GS.
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Item #2, only the F-22 is capable of 9G's at 50,000 ft......

Item #4, nobody on the planet is going to induce roll or yaw inputs into an aircraft that is pulling 9G's

not that you couldn't, its just that understanding aircraft structure and limitations of your body, you wouud never do that.....

high G's could cause serious injury if your body is out of "alignment"...
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Air Force Brat said:
(J-20) is NOT a 15 or 16 Ton fighter, and is no doubt within a ton or two of the F-22.
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quote-the-problem-with-the-world-is-that-the-intelligent-people-are-full-of-doubts-while-the-charles-bukowski-45-44-47.jpg
 
B

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Isn’t the published specs on the J-20 that it weighs 19 tons?

Barring some extreme composite technology, how could a (relatively large) plane like that weigh significantly less than 19 tons? It’s already very weight efficient since it’s somewhat larger than F-22 and weighs a few kgs less.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Biscuits said:
Isn’t the published specs on the J-20 that it weighs 19 tons?

Barring some extreme composite technology, how could a (relatively large) plane like that weigh significantly less than 19 tons? It’s already very weight efficient since it’s somewhat larger than F-22 and weighs a few kgs less.
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We have no published specs on the J-20. No one outside the PLAAF and probably people inside AVIC know how much it weighs.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
On the weight issue, no one knows any better. So since we've gone through the 15T vs 19T in the past, let's not cycle back there again. No one knows. It could be anything between. Volume wise, it is a big plane. Also as long as a flanker and just about as tall so if it is the weight as the F-22, it'll be less of a surprise than if it is not.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
TerraN_EmpirE said:
actually no.
F16 employs it yes as do F22, F35, Rafale.
However Hornet, Super Hornet, Gripen, Typhoon, Flanker all versions, Fulcrum upgraded versions SU57 use a fly by wire system with a traditional center stick.
Chinese fighters would be divided based on if derivative of Flanker or indigenous design. The Chinese indigenous J10 and J20 are stated as side stick. This could be unique to there maker or a requirement for the PLAAF new aircraft.
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J-10 uses a center stick. J-20 is the first aircraft in PLAAF to use a side stick.
 
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