Hong-Kong Protests

KYli

Brigadier
Btw, @solarz @taxiya and other Chinese members- What exactly is, according to your analysis, the number of Pro-China/ Patriots vis-a-vis the number of Pro-Dems ? HK consist of 7 million people. Last I head, the maximum headcount for Pro-Dem Rally was pegged at 2 million. ( The number could be an MSM/organizer spin . It is a good tactic to inflate the numbers to seem powerful). That means 5 million people could either be those who are pro-dem or Pro-CCP. Any HK individual in this forum can give their inputs on this ?

I think a lot of people have forgotten that Hong Kong used to be very anti-ccp. If we want to take an educational guess of the percentage of people who are pro-China vs pro-Dem, the legislature elections probably are the most reliable source.
1998 2000 2004 2008 2012 2016
Pro-Dem 66.15% 60.56% 60.52% 59.39% 57.40% 55.02%
Pro-Beijing 30.38% 34.94% 36.93% 39.71% 42.59% 40.17%

From some of the more reliable statistics and polls I have seemed over the years, I would say 1/3 pro-China, 1/3 pro-Dem, and 1/3 somewhat leading toward pro-Dem but not for some issues such as Hong Kong independent etc. Over the years, you can see the pro-Beijing is actually doing better due to the increase of supports from the new immigrants, the middle class, New Territories natives, and business community(not reliable). In addition, Pro-Beijing also won a couple of special election in a more one to one race recently. So you see without the divisive politics, the pro-Dem is losing support.

I think the current situation has actually galvanized the political spectrum. The pro-Dem needs to energize their base with hate and resentment and also to brainwash the youngsters so they are not going to stop inciting hatred.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
If you asked this question a month ago, I'd say it was 50-50, but I have a feeling it's gotten a lot more complicated than that.

I would describe the current situation as a spectrum. On one end you have the Beijing Loyalists and on the other end you have the Hardcore Insurgents. In between there are many shades, from those who are pro China but have reservations about the CCP, to those who are pro "democracy" but are getting uneasy about the violence.

I would say the vast majority are still people who just want to get on with their lives.
Hmm. Simply those who don't give a damn about politics and looks for a better life, right? Majority of people across nations are like that. Don't you think that they are getting fed up of these teenage tantrums and would side with the gov - considering they are open for dialogue. I keep insisting that violence is good (for PRC) simply in light of this. Certainly violence won't be good for HK citizens.
Majority of Hong Kongers are very proud of their heritage and being Chinese at that time but white worship, superior complex, and identify crisis are prevalent also.
But they are at fault for becoming "silent-majority". They ought to clearly express their views and instill a sense of patriotism in their kids too. Every country does it. Parents ought to have taken the teachers to court for being "anti-national". Democracy, Freedom and rule of law does not mean that you can burn flag of your nation or engage in treasonous anti-national activities.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Hmm. Simply those who don't give a damn about politics and looks for a better life, right? Majority of people across nations are like that. Don't you think that they are getting fed up of these teenage tantrums and would side with the gov - considering they are open for dialogue. I keep insisting that violence is good (for PRC) simply in light of this. Certainly violence won't be good for HK citizens.

Consider what options do law-abiding citizens of HK have? They can only put their hope in the authorities, but if the HK authorities could quell this unrest, they would have done it weeks ago. While it's good to see the HKPF using more effective ROE, I don't believe they have either the manpower nor the training to combat this foreign fueled insurgency.

Which brings us back to square one: how do you see this end? The foreign instigators will not simply quit on their own, and the HK authorities do not have the capability to end this.
 

KYli

Brigadier
I said this before and I would say it again. The HK government can enact the emergency law. Using the emergency law, they could create temporary regulations such as:

1. Making wearing a mask illegal.
2. Extending the power for the HKPF to detain up to whatever it is needed(days or weeks) without charges.
3. Granting certain lawful HK citizens the power to arrest, detain, and enforce laws like they have done in 1967 riots.

In addition, banning newspapers and forums, shutting down schools, deporting people with foreign passports that are also parts of regulations that were used in 67 riots which the HK could consider but might not be needed. It is really up to Carrie Lam if she has the courage to face down the rioters and the threats from the US.
 

Shaolian

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chief Executive Carrie Lam is either 1. Actually powerless (maybe due to orders from Beijing) to act tough on these rioters, 2. Having her government infiltrated by saboteurs, or 3. Worse, sympathetic to the riots herself.

Last week, she initiated a dialog session with so-called ordinary citizens of HK. Out of the 30 (or 50 not sure) people that managed to get a seat at the dialog, only around 5 person are pro-government. Carrie Lam and the organizers saw it fit to allow, even at this dialog, for the anti-goverment folks to wear face masks conceal their identities (granted, not all of them wore masks), and continue to spew trash in her face.

There was one brave female patriot, who said that, yes, she agreed with the rioters that there should be an independant investigation, but it'll be not on so-called fake police brutality, but to investigate the identities of all the rioters and their sponsors. That brave woman, having wore no mask, had the identity of her whole life, family, children and work exposed the very next day by these terrorists vermin, and threats were made against her.

With this kind of atmosphere, was it any wonder that there were only 5 pro-government supporters at that silly dialog that Carrie Lam organised???

Right now the HK government, headed by Lam never gave even a hint that they could protect peace loving citizens when they voice out against the rioters. I don't think the police is to blame. I think the police is just waiting for the signal from the HK government, and unleash the full force of the police. Right now, they are being ordered to maintain order with one hand tied behind their backs.

Having said this, I'm not sure how many ordinary HK folks and what is the actual ratio of those that wanted a crackdown. Maybe the government are indeed tied, and can't do much with reasons unknown to us. Maybe the dark forces behind are indeed powerful, and have a lot of actual control over the management of HK.

But even if the vast majority is against these riots, how many can be brave enough to wage a counter movement. Who are the grassroots pro-government leaders?
 
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KIENCHIN

Junior Member
Registered Member
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Protester shot in the chest by Police.
These hooligans have only one thing in mind and that is certainly not peaceful demonstrations.
It is very clear from this video these thugs have no respect for the rule of law and the people who are sworn to uphold it.
What do you expect the policeman to do in a chaotic situation like this, when the life of his colleagues and himself is threaten. Look at the Molotov cocktail thrown at them, that is intent to kill, only regret I have is, he wasn’t armed with a 9mm.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Chief Executive Carrie Lam is either 1. Actually powerless (maybe due to orders from Beijing) to act tough on these rioters, 2. Having her government infiltrated by saboteurs, or 3. Worse, sympathetic to the riots herself.

Last week, she initiated a dialog session with so-called ordinary citizens of HK. Out of the 30 (or 50 not sure) people that managed to get a seat at the dialog, only around 5 person are pro-government. Carrie Lam and the organizers saw it fit to allow, even at this dialog, for the anti-goverment folks to wear face masks conceal their identities (granted, not all of them wore masks), and continue to spew trash in her face.

There was one brave female patriot, who said that, yes, she agreed with the rioters that there should be an independant investigation, but it'll be not on so-called fake police brutality, but to investigate the identities of all the rioters and their sponsors. That brave woman, having wore no mask, had the identity of her whole life, family, children and work exposed the very next day by these terrorists vermin, and threats were made against her.

With this kind of atmosphere, was it any wonder that there were only 5 pro-government supporters at that silly dialog that Carrie Lam organised???

Right now the HK government, headed by Lam never gave even a hint that they could protect peace loving citizens when they voice out against the rioters. I don't think the police is to blame. I think the police is just waiting for the signal from the HK government, and unleash the full force of the police. Right now, they are being ordered to maintain order with one hand tied behind their backs.

Having said this, I'm not sure how many ordinary HK folks and what is the actual ratio of those that wanted a crackdown. Maybe the government are indeed tied, and can't do much with reasons unknown to us. Maybe the dark forces behind are indeed powerful, and have a lot of actual control over the management of HK.

But even if the vast majority is against these riots, how many can be brave enough to wage a counter movement. Who are the grassroots pro-government leaders?

Regardless of the reason, it's readily apparent that the HK authorities are incapable of dealing with the situation.
 
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