2019 National Day Military Parade

bruceb1959

Junior Member
Registered Member
Claiming “influence” is a very bold claim.

Just because China shot down a few D-21 does not mean they have any relation to a far more advanced project. It’s a laughable claim without substantial proof to back it up.

By that logic, maybe the F-22 bears influences from the MiG-21. Some MiG-21 were lost over Vietnam, which could have been studied for the F-22.

“Influences from the mig-21 may be present” and it’s very probably true...

Unfortunately, proving that something hasn't been influenced by another is far more difficult that proving the opposite ... in fact once again he didnt even say 'influences were present' rather 'may be present'. Call me pedantic if wish, but to a certain extent you are putting your own interpretation on his words and extrapolating to worst case.
 

bruceb1959

Junior Member
Registered Member
Perfectly well said. "They" never have to deal with this sort of shit. I can understand it for things that are very obviously bearing a resemblance or has been strongly influenced by ie J-11 with Su-27 and J-31 with F-22/F-35, respectively.

But the assumptions made for one mysterious high supersonic/hypersonic drone under a tarp may be influenced by a 40 year old drone? In what way? These idiots don't have the technical ability to go into any further detail. They see a superficial resemblance and all of a sudden the materials are also identical because China possesses spectrometry equipment better than everyone else and they're able to uncook an egg and work out not just perfect composition but also processing. What else? Ahh yes software is also the same after all 1970s software is developed the same way and Chinese can see code. The FCS, avionics, and mechanics are also identical. Shot down technology is still remarkably intact for reverse engineering and basic structural engineering is far beyond what dumb Chinese are capable of. Wind tunnels in China are all fakes. So are the computers. We all know Chinese aerospace can only copy foreign airfoils. It's NOT because physics is universal and every other nation's case of copying and bearing a strong resemblance is pure coincidence.


Oh I'm gonna get another beating for this but here goes. Firstly who is the 'they' who dont have to deal with this shit? Secondly, quite frankly I couldn't give a toss whether the drone (or whatever) under the Tarp was a copy of something else or not ... if it is call it out for what it out as such, if it isnt a copy , then all well and good. He is saying that it MAY have been influenced by an earlier design. it is highly unlikely that you can look at any one product/design/invention whatever, and NOT see influences that may have inspired it.

We don't know that it wasn't inspired by something else or to what extent; we can suggest that it was derived totally in a vacuum with no reference to anything that had gone before it, but that would be as ridiculous as Rogoway insisting that it was a copy (which he doesnt).

We do all know that Chinese Aerospace sector is very proficient, but to say that China has produced all its technology/weapons/aircraft totally divorced from outside influence or inspiration would be false. As false as it would be to claim for any country.
BTW I am not defending Rogoway, I just find knee-jerk defensive reactions laughable. This Forum should be better than that.

Are we having fun yet?
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Unfortunately, proving that something hasn't been influenced by another is far more difficult that proving the opposite ... in fact once again he didnt even say 'influences were present' rather 'may be present'. Call me pedantic if wish, but to a certain extent you are putting your own interpretation on his words and extrapolating to worst case.

True, I will only say influences of the MiG-21 may be present in the F-22. That way I’m being as authentic as he is.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I guess an upcoming parade has caught someone's attention...


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Navy SEAL who oversaw the bin Laden raid says China's massive military buildup is a 'holy s---' moment

China's technological strategy and innovation are serious threats to US national security — now, according to retired Adm. William McRaven, the US has reached a 'holy s---" moment and needs to invest more significantly in technology research and development to keep its edge.
  • McRaven said that "as we talk about the rise of China, the gap" between American and Chinese innovation "is narrowing."
  • In some cases — like with 5G commercialization — China is already beating the US, and its intellectual-property theft of US technology only compounds the rapid pace at which it's developing new technologies, a report by the Council on Foreign Relations released Wednesday said.



The legendary former Navy SEAL Adm. William McRaven said at an event on Wednesday that China's technical and defense capabilities were quickly approaching — and sometimes surpassing — those of the US, representing what he called a "holy s---" moment for the US.

McRaven, who was the head of Special Operations Command during the 2011 operation on the Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden's Pakistan compound, said at the Council on Foreign Relations event that "we need to make sure that the American public knows that now is the time to do something" about China's rapid developments in research and technology that threaten US national security.

China is emerging as the most significant rival to the US, as outlined in a report by the Council on Foreign Relations released Wednesday. From hacking and intellectual-property theft to incursions in the South China Sea, China is asserting its dominance in the Pacific and its intention to compete militarily with the US.

But McRaven said that particularly in terms of technology and innovation, "as we talk about the rise of China, the gap" between American and Chinese innovation "is narrowing."

In some cases, China is surpassing the US, according to the report — for example, in the commercialization of 5G, a necessary component of high-speed communication. What's more, Chinese-built 5G networks could pose significant risks to US national security, as evidenced by the US's contentious relationship with the Chinese tech company Huawei.

China's intellectual-property theft is a significant cause for concern, and one that the US is confronting, the report said. Between October and December, the US Department of Justice indicted Chinese hackers and intelligence personnel on charges of intellectual-property theft three times.

But it's not just about IP theft — it's also about China out-innovating the US, and that as its economy grows, it will continue to do so. The report stressed the necessity of federal funding for tech research and urged the Pentagon to fast-track the adoption of tech innovation in its bureaucratic systems — a problem China doesn't have, thanks to its integration of military and civil technical innovation.

China's growing economy and investment in technical innovation has been a growing threat to the US's national security for years, but now is the US's "Sputnik moment," McRaven said, referring to US competition with Russia in the Cold War.

"If not now, when?" he said. "And oh, by the way, it's just going to get harder as we get further into the future."
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I guess an upcoming parade has caught someone's attention...
Trump tweets:

"McRaven, what a loser and a lightweight and now the fake news media are talking about what he said. Bad people. Sad. But nobody knows more about technology than me; believe me I know technology like you wouldn't believe. My son, who's a genius by the way, can use this thing; it's called a computer! I have the best technology people. And I have a feeling that right after I'm re-elected, we'll see Chinese technology fall, but that wouldn't happen under Sleepy Joe or Pocahontas, no, they'd hand it all to China and Chinese technology would go like woopsh! But not under me. As long as I'm president, the United States will have the best technology in everything. President for life?"
 
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ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Trump responds:

"McRaven, what a loser and a lightweight and now the fake news are talking about what he said. Bad people. Sad. But nobody knows technology like me; believe me I know technology like you wouldn't believe. I have the best technology people. And I have a feeling that right after I'm re-elected, we'll see Chinese technology fall, but that wouldn't happen under Sleepy Joe or Pocahontas, no, they'd hand it all to China and Chinese technology would go like woopsh! But not under me. As long as I'm president, the United States will have the best technology in everything."
I read the "quote" before I read "Trump responds", and for a moment I really thought he said that.
 

SpicySichuan

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think this confirms the mini-rotorcraft is in service...

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Earlier images...
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Why does female infantry have different boots?
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Oh I'm gonna get another beating for this but here goes. Firstly who is the 'they' who dont have to deal with this shit? Secondly, quite frankly I couldn't give a toss whether the drone (or whatever) under the Tarp was a copy of something else or not ... if it is call it out for what it out as such, if it isnt a copy , then all well and good. He is saying that it MAY have been influenced by an earlier design. it is highly unlikely that you can look at any one product/design/invention whatever, and NOT see influences that may have inspired it.

We don't know that it wasn't inspired by something else or to what extent; we can suggest that it was derived totally in a vacuum with no reference to anything that had gone before it, but that would be as ridiculous as Rogoway insisting that it was a copy (which he doesnt).

We do all know that Chinese Aerospace sector is very proficient, but to say that China has produced all its technology/weapons/aircraft totally divorced from outside influence or inspiration would be false. As false as it would be to claim for any country.
BTW I am not defending Rogoway, I just find knee-jerk defensive reactions laughable. This Forum should be better than that.

Are we having fun yet?

Our panties are nice and unbunched thanks for the concern. I think some of us here are not offended by the comment as you may seem to think. We just wanted to point out in our own way how the whole China cannot possibly innovate narrative must be kept alive at every turn. This has nothing to do with the points you mentioned. You're simply taking the big picture there and while it's all correct, it has no bearing on the posts which are ridiculing Rogoway and western journalism's insistence at mentioning or hinting at connections between anything Chinese and western. They continue to propagate this propaganda everywhere so it makes it easy for the masses to accept black, grey, and white propaganda. Of course things like is only one ingredient out of many.
 
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