Hong-Kong Protests

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
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"Peaceful pleas to US turn to mayhem as Hong Kong station trashed and burned"
  • "Thousands rally in city’s business district to march to American consulate calling for help from US President Donald Trump
  • But radical faction breaks away setting fire to an entrance at Central MTR station before spreading chaos across Hong Kong Island and Kowloon"
Their seems to be a extreme disconnect between the young people, Hong Kongs future, and the China backed local government. It seems the extradition bill was just a match which lit the accumulated resentment .
The election of the hk assembly, with the chinese government having a say in the eligible candidates was in my view a watershed moment.
The hate for the chinese mainland is characterised by the booing of the chinese national anthem at stadiums(even Indians don't do that to pakistani anthem), historically refering to the chinese mainland ppl as locusts, etc.
China is a large country, they should let Hong Kong have its genuine autonomy, let the people their live as they want, restrict entry of Chinese to Hong Kong.
Maybe after a few decades or maybe even a century, the hong kongers due to economic or cultural reasons, will decide to voluntarily have closer relations with the chinese. Not at the moment though.


First of all, that's not the point. Your entire rhetoric is based upon the assumption that Mainland China as a geopolitical entity is actually interested in creating an overarching Chinese identity parallel to the Western concept of the "free and sovereign individual". This assumption is WRONG. Sure China has a long history of a somewhat class-less society, meaning that the mandate-of-heaven system and bureaucratic empire replaced the Warring-State era feudalism for nearly 20 centuries. However, this does NOT mean China do not have a deep history of discrimination.

China only claims to be a cheerleader of an over-arching Chinese identity. In actuality, the PRC only care about their own core population group. This is the actual Chinese tradition. Not every Chinese identity group is treated equally in China. The highest tier identity group of China has always being the "Central Plain Han Chinese" (中原汉人). This has always been true, as long as the central plain (华北平原) remains under Chinese authority. There has always been discrimination against southerners, despite the fact that Yangtze River region is literally the core of Chinese industrial and economic might, as well as the fact that Guangdong and Fujian provinces has been hugely influential in contemporary Chinese history.

This is where you are wrong. Your thought of China has been way too idealized. This is why you thought that PRC gives a damn about what Hong-Kongers want. Actually, the PRC don't give a rat's ass about what will upset the people of Hong Kong. PRC only cares about its own geopolitical interest.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
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"Peaceful pleas to US turn to mayhem as Hong Kong station trashed and burned"
  • "Thousands rally in city’s business district to march to American consulate calling for help from US President Donald Trump
  • But radical faction breaks away setting fire to an entrance at Central MTR station before spreading chaos across Hong Kong Island and Kowloon"
Their seems to be a extreme disconnect between the young people, Hong Kongs future, and the China backed local government. It seems the extradition bill was just a match which lit the accumulated resentment .
The election of the hk assembly, with the chinese government having a say in the eligible candidates was in my view a watershed moment.
The hate for the chinese mainland is characterised by the booing of the chinese national anthem at stadiums(even Indians don't do that to pakistani anthem), historically refering to the chinese mainland ppl as locusts, etc.
China is a large country, they should let Hong Kong have its genuine autonomy, let the people their live as they want, restrict entry of Chinese to Hong Kong.
Maybe after a few decades or maybe even a century, the hong kongers due to economic or cultural reasons, will decide to voluntarily have closer relations with the chinese. Not at the moment though.

Rhetoric like yours reminds me of the "Spanish Inquisition" in the Monty Python series. While bearing a fearsome name, the "Spanish Inquisition" in that TV series actually tortures their victims by funny anticlimactic things like "the cushions". Yes, this is what these Hong Kong rioters and their Western cheerleaders look like.

This is because they are doing NOTHING, NOTHING that could ever hope to threaten the PRC. Their actions are so anticlimactic, that I even have this urge to play the devil's advocate and suggest to them what they need to do in order to be effective in reaching their goal alone the lines of what you have uttered.

They will need to achieve the impossible of pulling a "Ukraine" in Hong Kong. In order to do this, they would need to achieve at least one of three goals:

1. Successfully force the incumbent HK government to relinquish power and let the rioting "opposition" (whoever those are) seize power.

2. Successfully proliferate the current state of unrest beyond the border of Hong Kong and into Mainland China.

3. Successfully provoke the PLA into a live confrontation with the civilians of HK and sustain the state of confrontation into a prolonged "Stabilizing/policing/order-keeping Campaign" that effective act as a war of attrition against China. Similar to what happened to the USSR (or the USA, in some degree) in Afghanistan.


This is pretty much impossible, because Ukraine and Hong Kong are totally different. Ukraine has their own military, they have their own military industrial complex, and they are a sovereign nation that handles their own economy and national defense. Hong Kong has none of these.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
This is exactly where they are wrong. I am not even saying this from a point-of-view that is opposing them. Speaking from a neutral point-of-view, what these mobs are doing only benefits the PRC (their sworn enemy). Because if they really are doing this as a "clash of civilization" kind of confrontation, they are ruining Western Civilization.

Hong Kong in essence is an iteration of the Western Civilization in Asia (particularly in Chinese society). It is basically a society based upon British-origin institutions and the Common Law. Therefore, in any real Civilizational confrontation, what the West would ideally want to do is to make sure Hong Kong has strong stability, while making mainland China society are more volatile and unstable. This is how the Western model win in a Chinese society in the long run. And this is how the west could win in a clash-of-civilization competition with today's China in the long run.

However, this is the opposite of what's happening: making Hong Kong society less stable. This is really beyond my understanding. I have not an iota of clue why the west would want to push for this.

Dear MOD: I am not sure if you guys would find this reply a bit to political. I hope you guys are fine with it.

Here's why. I've posted video before and I will post it again to give ya the over all idea behind the reason many (not all) believe that the modern world revolves around them.

 

maint1234

New Member
Registered Member
First of all, that's not the point. Your entire rhetoric is based upon the assumption that Mainland China as a geopolitical entity is actually interested in creating an overarching Chinese identity parallel to the Western concept of the "free and sovereign individual". This assumption is WRONG. Sure China has a long history of a somewhat class-less society, meaning that the mandate-of-heaven system and bureaucratic empire replaced the Warring-State era feudalism for nearly 20 centuries. However, this does NOT mean China do not have a deep history of discrimination.

China only claims to be a cheerleader of an over-arching Chinese identity. In actuality, the PRC only care about their own core population group. This is the actual Chinese tradition. Not every Chinese identity group is treated equally in China. The highest tier identity group of China has always being the "Central Plain Han Chinese" (中原汉人). This has always been true, as long as the central plain (华北平原) remains under Chinese authority. There has always been discrimination against southerners, despite the fact that Yangtze River region is literally the core of Chinese industrial and economic might, as well as the fact that Guangdong and Fujian provinces has been hugely influential in contemporary Chinese history.

This is where you are wrong. Your thought of China has been way too idealized. This is why you thought that PRC gives a damn about what Hong-Kongers want. Actually, the PRC don't give a rat's ass about what will upset the people of Hong Kong. PRC only cares about its own geopolitical interest.
The above does not make you sound good.
I have worked for around 2 years on a daily basis with Chinese on projects.
In India the chinese engineers and interpreter would watch bbc(propaganda) and other western news channels the most.
We were in the middle of a national election and they would laugh that in China the head would be selected years before the present guy retired.
They would criticize our 4 lane roads as too crowded and I had to explain to them the stages of resistance any project in India has to pass through, from NGOs, environmental, local villagers, local politicians, local government, etc, before even the financial package comes through .
He gave me a example of wreckers reaching residential areas in the morning in China and going about the breaking, after a weeks notice, with police help.
You are proudly espousing discrimination against Southern Chinese, which I cannot identify with.
The main difference is whether a nation is made of humans or only the territory.
 
First of all, that's not the point. Your entire rhetoric is based upon the assumption that Mainland China as a geopolitical entity is actually interested in creating an overarching Chinese identity parallel to the Western concept of the "free and sovereign individual". This assumption is WRONG. Sure China has a long history of a somewhat class-less society, meaning that the mandate-of-heaven system and bureaucratic empire replaced the Warring-State era feudalism for nearly 20 centuries. However, this does NOT mean China do not have a deep history of discrimination.

China only claims to be a cheerleader of an over-arching Chinese identity. In actuality, the PRC only care about their own core population group. This is the actual Chinese tradition. Not every Chinese identity group is treated equally in China. The highest tier identity group of China has always being the "Central Plain Han Chinese" (中原汉人). This has always been true, as long as the central plain (华北平原) remains under Chinese authority. There has always been discrimination against southerners, despite the fact that Yangtze River region is literally the core of Chinese industrial and economic might, as well as the fact that Guangdong and Fujian provinces has been hugely influential in contemporary Chinese history.

This is where you are wrong. Your thought of China has been way too idealized. This is why you thought that PRC gives a damn about what Hong-Kongers want. Actually, the PRC don't give a rat's ass about what will upset the people of Hong Kong. PRC only cares about its own geopolitical interest.

That is a simply incorrect impression of today's PRC, Chinese society, and culture, as well as an exaggeratedly dystopian slant on Chinese history.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The above does not make you sound good.
You are proudly espousing discrimination against Southern Chinese, which I cannot identify with.
The main difference is whether a nation is made of humans or only the territory.

I would have respected your holier-than-thou BS if your country respects Kashimiries’ wishes and return Sikkim to its original people
 
This is exactly where they are wrong. I am not even saying this from a point-of-view that is opposing them. Speaking from a neutral point-of-view, what these mobs are doing only benefits the PRC (their sworn enemy). Because if they really are doing this as a "clash of civilization" kind of confrontation, they are ruining Western Civilization.

Hong Kong in essence is an iteration of the Western Civilization in Asia (particularly in Chinese society). It is basically a society based upon British-origin institutions and the Common Law. Therefore, in any real Civilizational confrontation, what the West would ideally want to do is to make sure Hong Kong has strong stability, while making mainland China society are more volatile and unstable. This is how the Western model win in a Chinese society in the long run. And this is how the west could win in a clash-of-civilization competition with today's China in the long run.

However, this is the opposite of what's happening: making Hong Kong society less stable. This is really beyond my understanding. I have not an iota of clue why the west would want to push for this.

Dear MOD: I am not sure if you guys would find this reply a bit to political. I hope you guys are fine with it.

Here's why. I've posted video before and I will post it again to give ya the over all idea behind the reason many (not all) believe that the modern world revolves around them.


What @jimmyjames30x30 described is if "Western civilization" took the high road and cared about others' well-being, what is actually happening is particular Western countries taking the low road and out to ruin others' well-being.
 

maint1234

New Member
Registered Member
I would have respected your holier-than-thou BS if your country respects Kashimiries’ wishes and return Sikkim to its original people
India respects Kashimiri people's wishes and that's the reason they have had so many state elections over the last 70 years. If some Pakistan backed muslim kashmiris have a more radical view of a multi cultural society and like to agitate with isis flags, kill fellow kashmiri policemen in their homes, kill local elected politicians in cold blood, display extreme xenophobia against others, that's not a Indian problem, that's their problem. Bhudhists, Hindus, Shia Muslims and Sikhs in kashmir (35% of the population ), don't have a issue. Its only a minority of the south kashmir valley that are overly religious and want to create trouble. Not all kashmiri Muslims support these agitators. But no one wants to be killed for voicing their opinions.
Sikkim people are very happy to be part of India and their is no issue their.
I don't want to bring up the Tibet occupation, as this topic becomes even more off topic.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
India respects Kashimiri people's wishes and that's the reason they have had so many state elections over the last 70 years. If some Pakistan backed muslim kashmiris have a more radical view of a multi cultural society and like to agitate with isis flags, kill fellow kashmiri policemen in their homes, kill local elected politicians in cold blood, display extreme xenophobia against others, that's not a Indian problem, that's their problem. Bhudhists, Hindus, Shia Muslims and Sikhs in kashmir (35% of the population ), don't have a issue. Its only a minority of the south kashmir valley that are overly religious and want to create trouble. Not all kashmiri Muslims support these agitators. But no one wants to be killed for voicing their opinions.
Sikkim people are very happy to be part of India and their is no issue their.
I don't want to bring up the Tibet occupation, as this topic becomes even more off topic.
Oooohh, I see you are starting to form an understanding of Hong Kong after all and you might not even know it! Let me show you with your own words:

"If some CIA backed Hong Kong cultists have a more radical view of Chinese society and like to agitate with American/British colonial flags, attack fellow Hong Kongers, stab policemen on the streets, firebomb/throw bricks, shoot BB guns at local law enforcement, display extreme xenophobia against Mainland Chinese, that's not a Chinese problem; that's their problem. Normal business owners, taxi drivers, people who have to go to work or use the airport for business trips (majority of the population ), don't have a issue. Its only a minority of the radicalized Hong Kong rioters that are overly brainwashed and want to create trouble. Not all Hong Kongers support these agitators. And no one wants to be violently attacked by them for voicing their opinions."
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
India respects Kashimiri people's wishes and that's the reason they have had so many state elections over the last 70 years. If some Pakistan backed muslim kashmiris have a more radical view of a multi cultural society and like to agitate with isis flags, kill fellow kashmiri policemen in their homes, kill local elected politicians in cold blood, display extreme xenophobia against others, that's not a Indian problem, that's their problem. Bhudhists, Hindus, Shia Muslims and Sikhs in kashmir (35% of the population ), don't have a issue. Its only a minority of the south kashmir valley that are overly religious and want to create trouble. Not all kashmiri Muslims support these agitators. But no one wants to be killed for voicing their opinions.
Sikkim people are very happy to be part of India and their is no issue their.
I don't want to bring up the Tibet occupation, as this topic becomes even more off topic.

Indians are in no position to criticize others on human rights
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Wanna talk about the tactic India used to take over Sikkim?
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