UK Team Tempest

Pmichael

Junior Member
6 words

"No contract awarded to Team Tempest" for a next generation fighter. Whatever get started today as the extra "upgrade for the existing Tphyoon & F-35 fleet". It's right now the most glorified Eurofighter developement program ever.

Not that you can actually award a contract for a next gen fighter if you aren't even having partners which are commited to FCAS.
 

Brumby

Major
Brumby good luck to your thread;

somewhere in the first page I saw

"Some £2 billion ($2.6 billion) has been set aside from the 2015 Strategic Defense and Security Review for development of technologies associated with a future platform, ..."

so let me ask you (sorry if it's in some of the posts)

how much the UK already has spent on the Tempest?
(as of today), thanks

First off it is not my thread. I just think it is time to centralise the Tempest conversation into one thread.

The Combat Air Strategy, published in July 2018, sets out the Government’s ambition to develop a new combat air system that will fly alongside Typhoon and Lightning by 2035.

The RAF’s combat air fleet is about to undergo a massive change. The aging Tornado GR4 aircraft will leave service in 2019 and replaced by the new Lightning (F-35) aircraft. Lightning will then partner Typhoon, until the latter leaves service around 2040. Typhoon’s successor is the focus of the Combat Air Strategy. (Briefing Paper 08391, 31 AUGUST 2018 House of Commons). In simple terms, the Tempest is a Typhoon replacement project.

The program is not some after thought because there is nothing else better to do. Every responsible government has a duty to address its security needs and some programs do take a long time to bear fruit as would be with the Tempest program. We are having this conversation because there is transparency on what the British government intends to achieve over time

The Strategy lays out an ambitious timeline leading up to an initial operating capability of 2035:

• End 2018: a strategic outline business case

• Mid-2019: initial assessment of international collaboration options

• End 2020: early decisions for capability acquisition (capability, partnership approach, cost and delivery schedule)

• 2025: final investment decisions

• 2035: initial Operating Capability

Based on the timeline, don't expect much clarity or fidelity on the program because it is early days.

As to your question on what had been spent. I don't know but if I were to guess - insignificant given where the program is in the timeline.

Officially the following is what we know.

The Prime Minister said the Future Combat Air System Technology Initiative (FCAS TI) will deliver over £2bn pounds of investment up to 2025. (Prime Minister’s speech at Farnborough International Airshow, Prime Minister’s Office, 16 July 2018)

The Combat Air Strategy suggests the £2bn will come jointly from Government and industry:

The 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review also initiated the Future Combat Air System Technology Initiative to bridge this gap [between the end of Typhoon production in the 2020s and production on new aircraft]. This enables over £2Bn of joint Government and industry investment in sustaining and enhancing key skills and capacity into the 2020s. By continuing to implement this policy, including the critical next phase of the National Programme, we will provide investment in key UK design engineering skills and a means to generate UK Intellectual Property. This will help to maintain long-term choice for future UK Combat Air system acquisition and ensure a major role for UK industry in delivering the systems that succeed Typhoon.

The RAF’s Chief of staff for capability says are “50:50 funding arrangements on key elements of the programme with industry”. (Farnborough 2018: Team Tempest outlines future combat air strategies and technologies”, Jane’s Defence Weekly, 17 July 2018)

That said, I thinik the initial number is inadequate relative to what we know were spent on the F-22 and F-35 development.
 
First off it is not my thread. I just think it is time to centralise the Tempest conversation into one thread.

The Combat Air Strategy, published in July 2018, sets out the Government’s ambition to develop a new combat air system that will fly alongside Typhoon and Lightning by 2035.

The RAF’s combat air fleet is about to undergo a massive change. The aging Tornado GR4 aircraft will leave service in 2019 and replaced by the new Lightning (F-35) aircraft. Lightning will then partner Typhoon, until the latter leaves service around 2040. Typhoon’s successor is the focus of the Combat Air Strategy. (Briefing Paper 08391, 31 AUGUST 2018 House of Commons). In simple terms, the Tempest is a Typhoon replacement project.

The program is not some after thought because there is nothing else better to do. Every responsible government has a duty to address its security needs and some programs do take a long time to bear fruit as would be with the Tempest program. We are having this conversation because there is transparency on what the British government intends to achieve over time

The Strategy lays out an ambitious timeline leading up to an initial operating capability of 2035:

• End 2018: a strategic outline business case

• Mid-2019: initial assessment of international collaboration options

• End 2020: early decisions for capability acquisition (capability, partnership approach, cost and delivery schedule)

• 2025: final investment decisions

• 2035: initial Operating Capability

Based on the timeline, don't expect much clarity or fidelity on the program because it is early days.

As to your question on what had been spent. I don't know but if I were to guess - insignificant given where the program is in the timeline.

Officially the following is what we know.

The Prime Minister said the Future Combat Air System Technology Initiative (FCAS TI) will deliver over £2bn pounds of investment up to 2025. (Prime Minister’s speech at Farnborough International Airshow, Prime Minister’s Office, 16 July 2018)

The Combat Air Strategy suggests the £2bn will come jointly from Government and industry:

The 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review also initiated the Future Combat Air System Technology Initiative to bridge this gap [between the end of Typhoon production in the 2020s and production on new aircraft]. This enables over £2Bn of joint Government and industry investment in sustaining and enhancing key skills and capacity into the 2020s. By continuing to implement this policy, including the critical next phase of the National Programme, we will provide investment in key UK design engineering skills and a means to generate UK Intellectual Property. This will help to maintain long-term choice for future UK Combat Air system acquisition and ensure a major role for UK industry in delivering the systems that succeed Typhoon.

The RAF’s Chief of staff for capability says are “50:50 funding arrangements on key elements of the programme with industry”. (Farnborough 2018: Team Tempest outlines future combat air strategies and technologies”, Jane’s Defence Weekly, 17 July 2018)

That said, I thinik the initial number is inadequate relative to what we know were spent on the F-22 and F-35 development.
sounds like to the answer to my Yesterday at 1:23 PM question
how much the UK already has spent on the Tempest?
is
0 (zero) £
 

Brumby

Major
No Money, No Honey

Did you actually bother to read the broad timelines?

Up to and until end 2019 it is primarily conducting discussions with prospective and potential partners about the program. This type of cost would normally be funded from existing operating budget until such time when the program structure is put in place. When and how that is going to happen is not something I am privy to. This doesn't mean other associated spending are not happening such as Rolls Royce concurrently working on developing an adaptive engine - regardless.
 
That is where Japan can possibly come in.
Japan MoD has made it clear that they will make formal requisition in developing the F-3 for 2020 budget.
I beg your pardon, what's (according to you) a connection between "Tempest" funding and "F-3" funding??

I'm asking because your post Today at 8:33 AM appears to have connected them

("them" = "Tempest" funding and "F-3" funding)
 
Did you actually bother to read the broad timelines?

Up to and until end 2019 it is primarily conducting discussions with prospective and potential partners about the program. This type of cost would normally be funded from existing operating budget until such time when the program structure is put in place. When and how that is going to happen is not something I am privy to. This doesn't mean other associated spending are not happening such as Rolls Royce concurrently working on developing an adaptive engine - regardless.
Yesterday at 1:23 PM
I asked a simple question
how much the UK already has spent on the Tempest?
in reponse got a smokescreen LOL

look, should the UK just pretended to work on a next gen aircraft and so far had spent NOTHING on it (except for a PR campaign hahaha), I'd prefer to hear they spent nothing on it, and I'd let it be

in short, all I try to do is follow the money
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
I beg your pardon, what's (according to you) a connection between "Tempest" funding and "F-3" funding??

I'm asking because your post Today at 8:33 AM appears to have connected them

("them" = "Tempest" funding and "F-3" funding)

It would be delusional to think that UK with their F-35 developement approach is an interesting partner for Japan to develope an aircraft together with. The British wet dream of designing a British aircraft while other nations are paying for it is sure something.
 
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