Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

Air Force Brat said:

You're the wishful thinker here, there's really no program of record, but if China does build the FC-31/J-35?? its gonna cost a hell of a lot of money and time spent engineering in order to produce an aircraft with similar capabilities to an F-35, and you know that as well as I do! so when this wishful J-35 is flying with two WS-19s?? if it ever does, then you've started down the path to maybe, possibly, hopefully being on trac to F-35 type capability, but you're nowhere near a STOVL fighter aircraft, so that's one more "pie in the sky" project for you....

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What wishful claims did I make? Point them out.

Ahh, moving the goalpost again and clinging to a past of unchallenged American technological dominance. "A hell of a lot of money" is guaranteed, as is the cost to develop any jet, but that has no definition and I would have never objected to that comment. You said the J-35 program would cost the same amount as the F-35 program, which is your wishful imagination and basically impossible. You know as well as I do that the Chinese are for more efficient with research funds. A J-35 with 2 WS-19s is what everybody expects; if it doesn't materialize then obviously there's nothing to compare but if it does, such a jet would likely have F-35 type capability, but most likely it will be superior in some areas and lag a bit in others, like STOVL. The designers of the F-35 can invest in what it feels is important but there's no indication that the Chinese are interested or willing to make the sacrifice for a STOVL jet. And the phrase, "nowhere near a STOVL fighter" does not make sense as STOVL is not a rank or grade and non-STOVL jets can defeat STOVL jets as often or more often than vice-versa. So you keep that wishful pie in the sky of never being surpassed to yourself.

J35 here? J35 their?
J35 with twin WS19 engines Wow!!! Where where is it? Parked next the the Quinjet?

This is reminding me of the J18. You know the SVTOL that China was building? Yeah the one that doesn’t exist.
Until we see photos it’s like the “Sports model” that buzzes Area 51. Even if we do get the photos of a “J35” it doesn’t mean it’s going into production it could just be the Chinese version of an X plane.
Comparing rumors to actual combat aircraft is like dogfighting a Mig31 vs a Star Trek Shuttle craft. Pure flights of fancy.

Deino said:

To admit, I'm rather disappointed.

It is the same very much ill-shaped or in fact misshaped model we know from other airshows, now mated with not the latest but dated weapons ... IMO the really need to learn a lot on PR issues.

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Having looked around the web and this forum, have to agree it's just a bad model. Will try to get somebody to talk about it later, but I'll likely get silence and awkward looks away...

KFX said:

Having looked around the web and this forum, have to agree it's just a bad model. Will try to get somebody to talk about it later, but I'll likely get silence and awkward looks away...

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I dunno... for a bad model it is a surprisingly good design. I'd interpret it as greater inlet S-bending on the bulges, more prominent ridge probably means larger fuel capacity. and maybe more optimized area-ruling? I have to say it is at least a lot prettier than 2.0, or maybe I'm just a sucker for curvy body....

manqiangrexue said:

It's more like a stealth MiG-29 since that aircraft was the first dual vertical stabilizer jet and what the LockMart birds look like.

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Actually the Lockheed A-12/YF-12 were the first stealthy Kelly Johnson designs to feature twin vertical stabs! to be honest the English had a very early twin vertical stabs on two tail booms with a common, horizontal stabilizer adding structural integrity...

theres no doubt it is a LockMart clone, down to the painted bird on the tail.....

I believe it was the "Goblin", we've got a few of those hanging around here as well.....

Air Force Brat said:

Actually the Lockheed A-12/YF-12 were the first stealthy Kelly Johnson designs to feature twin vertical stabs! to be honest the English had a very early twin vertical stabs on two tail booms with a common, horizontal stabilizer adding structural integrity...

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Well, I was talking about fighters but since I only said "jet," I'll give it to you since I don't move the goalpost like you. Also, looking back to check my diction for "jet" made me realize I typed MiG-29 when I meant to say 25. However, no one serious could ever say a fighter design was copied from an A-12.

Air Force Brat said:

theres no doubt it is a LockMart clone, down to the painted bird on the tail.....

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It's as much a Lockmart clone as an F-14/15/18 are clones of the MiG-25. Every car with 4 wheels, doors and a cabin is a clone of some other car... and every bicycle is a clone of another bicycle LOLOL

manqiangrexue said:

Well, I was talking about fighters but since I only said "jet," I'll give it to you since I don't move the goalpost like you. Also, looking back to check my diction for "jet" made me realize I typed MiG-29 when I meant to say 25. However, no one serious could ever say a fighter design was copied from an A-12.


It's as much a Lockmart clone as an F-14/15/18 are clones of the MiG-25. Every car with 4 wheels, doors and a cabin is a clone of some other car... and every bicycle is a clone of another bicycle LOLOL

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To some people everything is a clone of a product of a particular nation, everyone else can’t innovate.

Air Force Brat said:

Actually the Lockheed A-12/YF-12 were the first stealthy Kelly Johnson designs to feature twin vertical stabs! to be honest the English had a very early twin vertical stabs on two tail booms with a common, horizontal stabilizer adding structural integrity...

theres no doubt it is a LockMart clone, down to the painted bird on the tail.....

I believe it was the "Goblin", we've got a few of those hanging around here as well.....

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Look at the De Havilland Vampire, probably the first twin jet fighter aircraft, I would note that the P-38, designed by Kelly Johnson around 1937 had twin vertical stabs. The Vought F7U was the first carrier based Fighter aircraft to feature twin vertical stabs. The YF-12, another A-12 derivative designed by Kelly Johnson had a round bulbous nose for the radar, a Northrup fire control system and 3 air to air missiles... it was indeed a fighter aircraft.

In fact if we get technical, the J-20 shares a great number of brilliant design elements that had their genesis on the A-12....

Point being that airplanes have genetics, they have a human designer. Kelly Johnson is the heart beat of Lockheed, the A-12 like many other American designs, was far, far ahead of its time.

This all brings us back to the "genetics" of the J-31/FC-31/J-35, if you were truly a geneticist as you would like for us all to believe??? you would know exactly what I'm talking about....

Again if you are indeed a "geneticist" you would have acknowledged long ago that aircraft go through a "development process"

my point is the FC-31 has very clear genetics that have nothing to do with the F-14, F-15, F-18, nor does it bear more than superficial resemblance to the Mig-25, Mig-29, or the even Su-27and its Chinese "knock offs", the J-11, J-15, and J-16... her roots are clearly in Ft. Worth.

My point is that the FC-31 is "in utero".

Guys ... can we leave this nasty and IMO unworthy stupid discussion on the "FC-31 = clone of whatever"!??

Pakistan should immediately invest $1 billion cash into the FC-31 project

so by the time the the final JF17 Block III comes off the production line in 2024 in 2025 we start on 5th generation fighter