To address its own and country biggest weakness, Huawei must advance its chip manufacturing.

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phynex92

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Yes but I'm trying to figure out how much of a challenge this is even though it's clear that open source Android cannot be taken away. Does this mean that China/Huawei simply has to get a few softwares made (like Huawei Playstore) or does this mean that all US apps are permanently illegal or impossible to use on Huawei phones? Does it mean it's impossible to use Google Chrome/Firefox legally and all Huawei phones can only use Baidu (which is OK is China but not likely in Europe), or can you still download them without upgrades like any phone can? I do not know what this means and would like to find out.

I don't think side-loading US apps on Huawei phones would be considered illegal. The the ban is true, what it'll means is that Huawei's phones will lose the Google Play certification and some apps such as Google Pay will not work properly. What the apps can do is to insert a mechanism that actively detects Huawei phones and stop running upon detection. There are ways to circumvent all of this through methods such as rooting but I don't know the legality in it. If the US really goes all the way into forcing its app developers to actively blocking Huawei's phones (which is insane), then that's equivalent to the formal declaration of a tech war. I think it'd reasonable for the Chinese government to force all Chinese apps to leave both the Google Play Store and Apple App Store. Keep in mind that Chinese apps are a huge source of revenue for both Google and Apple.
 

taxiya

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Yes but I'm trying to figure out how much of a challenge this is even though it's clear that open source Android cannot be taken away.

Does this mean that China/Huawei simply has to get a few softwares made (like Huawei Playstore)
Yes. And Hawei has been doing that ever since.
Huawei phone does not have any GMS SW, google's proprietary software suites like playstore, Gsuites, Chrome etc.

or does this mean that all US apps are permanently illegal or impossible to use on Huawei phones?
No. Only GMS are blocked but Huawei never used it anyway. Other software made by American company depends on that company's license policy which may or may not be subjected under the new ban.

Does it mean it's impossible to use Google Chrome/Firefox legally and all Huawei phones can only use Baidu (which is OK is China but not likely in Europe),
No, individual owner of the phone can do whatever they want under the jurisdiction of their own provided not against the licence agreement with specific developer.

In case of Google Chrome, I think one can not "legally" acquire a copy of Chrome and install it on one's phone, doing so MAY be piracy. But it is a may, perhaps a grey zone. It is because Chrome is proprietary product.

Firefox is totally free anywhere in the world.

or can you still download them without upgrades like any phone can? I do not know what this means and would like to find out.
Yes, you can download them (APK files) and install them like softwares from Google Playstore or Huawei Playstore. That is only necessary with Google's apps when they are not available in your vendor's (Huawei) store.
 

manqiangrexue

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I don't think side-loading US apps on Huawei phones would be considered illegal. The the ban is true, what it'll means is that Huawei's phones will lose the Google Play certification and some apps such as Google Pay will not work properly. What the apps can do is to insert a mechanism that actively detects Huawei phones and stop running upon detection. There are ways to circumvent all of this through methods such as rooting but I don't know the legality in it. If the US really goes all the way into forcing its app developers to actively blocking Huawei's phones (which is insane), then that's equivalent to the formal declaration of a tech war. I think it'd reasonable for the Chinese government to force all Chinese apps to leave both the Google Play Store and Apple App Store. Keep in mind that Chinese apps are a huge source of revenue for both Google and Apple.
Oh the tech war is full on; if China's still sparing any efforts at all to become self-sufficient, I would start to think that they don't deserve to be number one or to lead the country.

If @taxiya is correct then this is a much smaller issue than I had thought. From the ZTE case to the Huawei component ban to the Google ban, we're already seeing drastically diminishing returns and increased costs on America's efforts to hinder Chinese tech companies.
 

taxiya

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I don't think side-loading US apps on Huawei phones would be considered illegal. The the ban is true, what it'll means is that Huawei's phones will lose the Google Play certification and some apps such as Google Pay will not work properly. What the apps can do is to insert a mechanism that actively detects Huawei phones and stop running upon detection. There are ways to circumvent all of this through methods such as rooting but I don't know the legality in it. If the US really goes all the way into forcing its app developers to actively blocking Huawei's phones (which is insane), then that's equivalent to the formal declaration of a tech war. I think it'd reasonable for the Chinese government to force all Chinese apps to leave both the Google Play Store and Apple App Store. Keep in mind that Chinese apps are a huge source of revenue for both Google and Apple.
The side loading Google apps is probably in a grey zone. It has been done openly by many people over the world, like Lineage OS without being gone after. However, Google legally owns these software, so the possibility is still there. Actually Google has been
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using Google services since 2018.

The problem is not what you do in your device, it is a digital certificate issued to every vendor from Google, it is unique. One can fake it but that breaks law in every country, and not only will Google and US government go after you, but the vendor that you faked to be and its country will go after you.

The gentlemen's way is to promote alternatives, Huawei store instead, independent email service in the local country, I am sure many companies in Europe would want that piece of pie.

The rouge way is to establish a user community what provide good instruction or click-and-go toolbox to do all the tricks.
 
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taxiya

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Oh the tech war is full on; if China's still sparing any efforts at all to become self-sufficient, I would start to think that they don't deserve to be number one or to lead the country.

If @taxiya is correct then this is a much smaller issue than I had thought. From the ZTE case to the Huawei component ban to the Google ban, we're already seeing drastic diminishing returns and increased costs on America's efforts to hinder Chinese tech companies.
I was only correct if one does not use GMS, that is Google's playstore, Gmail, G-drive, Google Photo Sync, anything connected to Google's cloud.

It would be a headache for Huawei phone owners in western Europe though since most people there use GMS.
 

Weaasel

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China must aim for full capability of producing high tech products in all areas of the high tech spectrum and Chinese companies must fully divorce themselves from foreign supply chains for EVERYTHING. No foreign source can be trusted. Almost the entire rest of the world is scared shitless of the United States and the United States can threaten them to stop doing business with China and they will probably obey even if it costs them greatly.

Once China has demonstrated the capability of producing a wide range of high tech goods of quality comparable to those made by entities of states that are of the US Alliance, US leverage on those countries will weaken considerably and they will be much less likely amenable to US dictats.

Probably China can tell those countries now that if they decide to join in any tech embargo with the United States now, in the future they will face very big restrictions on access to the Chinese market once China's replaced imported tech with domestically produced tech.
 

manqiangrexue

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I was only correct if one does not use GMS, that is Google's playstore, Gmail, G-drive, Google Photo Sync, anything connected to Google's cloud.
So I've only used playstore and chrome so I assume everything else ain't that important. Chrome can be replaced easily with Firefox if what you say is true that it cannot be blocked. I'm not a software engineer but it doesn't seem too hard to make a playstore, which is basically listing a bunch of apps you can install. It's access to the apps themselves that is important, not the playstore you go through.

If one can grey-zone side-load Google's stuff into a Huawei phone and there are easy mods to make Google apps unable to detect a Huawei device then Huawei can keep the global techie market that revels in what a Huawei premium phone can do and know how to keep the device running the way they want (or at least can get someone to do it).

If Huawei can legally side-load most of Google services into the phone OR they can come up with an easy-to-use domestic alternative to getting those apps working and basic functions performing, then Huawei can keep most of the global average Joe/ soccer mom market.

If neither can be done then Huawei phones are coming back home to become self-sufficient before they re-expand.
 

taxiya

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So I've only used playstore and chrome so I assume everything else ain't that important. Chrome can be replaced easily with Firefox if what you say is true that it cannot be blocked. I'm not a software engineer but it doesn't seem too hard to make a playstore, which is basically listing a bunch of apps you can install. It's access to the apps themselves that is important, not the playstore you go through.

If one can grey-zone side-load Google's stuff into a Huawei phone and there are easy mods to make Google apps unable to detect a Huawei device then Huawei can keep the global techie market that revels in what a Huawei premium phone can do and know how to keep the device running the way they want (or at least can get someone to do it).

If Huawei can legally side-load most of Google services into the phone OR they can come up with an easy-to-use domestic alternative to getting those apps working and basic functions performing, then Huawei can keep most of the global average Joe/ soccer mom market.

If neither can be done then Huawei phones are coming back home to become self-sufficient before they re-expand.
I am afraid the commoners who pays over 5000RMB equivalent for a phone are not able to do the tricks, neither are they able to understand who (the source APK) to trust, nor will they willing to take the risk of being threatened for law suit even if everything is legal. A threat and smir campaign by MSM is enough.

The only way is to promote equivalent basic replacement services. Not necessarily by Huawei.
 

phynex92

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I was only correct if one does not use GMS, that is Google's playstore, Gmail, G-drive, Google Photo Sync, anything connected to Google's cloud.

It would be a headache for Huawei phone owners in western Europe though since most people there use GMS.

It's definitely going to a setback for Huawei's global expansions. The only saving grace is that it can still sell phones in China unhindered because its systems doesn't use any Google services in China and there's no legal problems with sideloading apps in China that I'm aware of.
 
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