Type 051 (Luda) Class DDG, News, Pics, info

J

joshuatree

Captain
MwRYum said:
But who'd want those high manpower-requirement, high maintenance antiques these days? Which is why these days China would rather sell newly built boats to its allies at discounted (?) price, and provide CCG with more suitably designed cutters (though typically lacking in firepower compare with those of USCG and etc). In the CCG scenario, it was more due to the initial lack of large tonnage ships in the CCG fleet so retired DDGs from PLAN (which were puny by modern DDG standard) converted to CCG was the fastest and cheapest avenue to expand its fleet; but now with newer and better cutters churning out of shipyards, they won't need to tough it out with such old rust bucket like 051 series, which not only not designed for long endurance patrols, but also not suitable for helicopter/UAV operations.

So, either they consign the retiring 051 to museum or scrap them for recycling, they'd make good targets for live-firing exercises.
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There are countries that don't have the budget to purchase ships of this category or tonnage so a donation would go a long way. For example, Cambodia's navy consists of only FACs and patrol boats. Or in a better political climate, the Philippines, which lacks number of larger hulls to patrol its waters. However, maybe such a donation would further better the political climate.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
joshuatree said:
There are countries that don't have the budget to purchase ships of this category or tonnage so a donation would go a long way. For example, Cambodia's navy consists of only FACs and patrol boats. Or in a better political climate, the Philippines, which lacks number of larger hulls to patrol its waters. However, maybe such a donation would further better the political climate.
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Alas, 051 class is in essence a late-to-post-WW2 DDG design in both philosophy and reality, the only thing make them "modern" is probably their construction date. They're way too manpower intensive for those poor countries to man, maintain and upkeep. A sufficiently modernised 053 (later series) might be better candidate, or perhaps the 056 derivatives which is more ideal with the level of automation available.

And since you mentioned the Philippines, well.... what you said ain't going to happen, period. Case in point - that rusting LST the Philippines Navy purposely grounded at Second Thomas Shoal and still there despite it's just one stiff storm away to fell totally apart. That alone epitomise why China and Philippines will never warm up to that level you mentioned.
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
Chinese Wikipedia has been updated to suggest 165 Guilin was decommissioned in March 2019. If true, with 134 Zunyi also having been decommissioned a few months ago, PLAN is down to 4 Ludas.

Can anyone confirm/deny?
 
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B

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
MwRYum said:
But who'd want those high manpower-requirement, high maintenance antiques these days? Which is why these days China would rather sell newly built boats to its allies at discounted (?) price, and provide CCG with more suitably designed cutters (though typically lacking in firepower compare with those of USCG and etc). In the CCG scenario, it was more due to the initial lack of large tonnage ships in the CCG fleet so retired DDGs from PLAN (which were puny by modern DDG standard) converted to CCG was the fastest and cheapest avenue to expand its fleet; but now with newer and better cutters churning out of shipyards, they won't need to tough it out with such old rust bucket like 051 series, which not only not designed for long endurance patrols, but also not suitable for helicopter/UAV operations.

So, either they consign the retiring 051 to museum or scrap them for recycling, they'd make good targets for live-firing exercises.
Click to expand...

The Ludas should not be underestimated as warships.

Even if old, they have fairly high grade electronics on them, including a very capable HN-900 datalink, and room for a bunch of AShM. While the YJ-83 is no longer valued within the PLAN, it is still a Harpoon equivalent with excellent electronics and sea skimming capability, if slow. Many navies around the world use weapons of similar advancement as their primary AShM.

Compared to for example the Phillipines navy’s top combatant, the Del Pilar frigates, the Ludas are superior in almost every metric.

A donation of these ships to most third world countries would not simply be an addition to their fleet, but providing a centerpiece for their navy that may be unmatched in the local region.

Scrapping the ships would be a tremendous waste. Perhaps a waste that can be afforded, but shouldn’t be done anyways.
 
T

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Its takes 280 people to crew a Luda. It also takes 280 people to crew a 052C/D, and about 165 people for the Type 054A. Takes about 168 people for the Jiangwei Type 053H3, but only 78 people for the Type 056.

It also costs money to train, house and feed every soul in the ship. I would think the most efficient use of 280 trained people is that they should be manning a Type 052C or D instead. There is going to be more than plenty new destroyers coming around. I would retire these old ships one by one, which releases their crews for newer ships, and the ship names --- like Kaifeng and Zhuhai --- to be used on the newest destroyers. Keeping 280 people in a small ship is demoralizing, being in the old ship that isn't in the front line feels demoralizing in front of your peers, the old ship does not exercise as much, nor deploy as much because of its condition so skills and morale suffer. The steam turbines are also a pain to maintain and a bit more hazardous. Recently someone died aboard India's aircraft carrier because a steam pipe burst.

280 people to run a ship that is a bit corvettish in this time and age seems wasteful, since you can only need 78 for a true corvette, and the same complement can fill nearly 4 corvettes.

For what its worth, a Luda has more than enough firepower to deal with most littoral competition. But for other reasons, its time to let it go.
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
The Ludas are by no means useless, but their high crewing requirements and aged hulls and systems make them unattractive propositions for foreign buyers. For those nations that would consider buying second-hand, 053H3s would be a much more attractive prospect.

With both 052Ds and 055s coming online, I think we can expect 109 Kaifeng (c. 1982) and 110 Dalian (c.1984) to retire in the next year or two. The last pair of Ludas, 165 Zhanjiang (c. 1989) and 166 Zhuhai (c. 1991), will probably be around for a few more years yet, perhaps till ~2025.
 
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