Trade War with China

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Xizor

Captain
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Just a food for thought.

This is a continuation of the Korean war, except without physical confrontation, it's done by economic warfare via sanctions against China and North Korea by US.

So if you view it through these lense, although officially they are separate issues, Donald Trump thinks they are linked together.
Donald Trump thinks they are linked together ?! I never knew he had that much a brain capacity. I'm not joking here. I genuinely don't think Trump has what it takes to be the main strategist of the current China policy. There are numerous renowned war hawks, think tank reps and strategists in DC to do that job. For them, Trump is an asset ( like any other POTUS). They are making sure the chaotic and unpredictable nature of POTUS 45 is put to good use.
I'm imagining that they'd be like " Good job prez with your speech on Venezuela. We are coordinating with your twitter dept to make sure the evening tweets proclaiming good progress and great relationship with China is put out ASAP so that the stock market people get calmed down and post higher numbers. But remember that tomorrow, just before your burger lunch, we will have you to work with the Twitter dept to tweet about the 600 BILLION trade deficit and how easy is it to win trade wars. Trust us Mr.prez. Just do as we say. Do a fine job and we will ensure another 4 years for you here"
 
now I read
US’ maximum pressure policy is useless
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/5/12 22:47:27
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US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said Friday that President Donald Trump had instructed him to begin the process of raising tariffs on essentially all remaining imports from China and details will be announced Monday. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on the same day that there are no further trade talks planned between the US and China "as of now." As the US is waving the stick of a maximum pressure policy, China's attitude is: We have prepared ourselves for various scenarios.

Arrogant of its strength, Washington provoked the trade war, believing tariffs are enough to crush China. China's response demonstrates the tai chi philosophy. It has adhered to its principles, not fearing the trade war while trying to crumble the US' provocations with stout endurance.

The fierce US offensive is irrational. It will hurt the US economy. Washington obviously hopes that the fierce tariff war, which is unprecedented in trade history, will crush China's will in one fell swoop and force China to accept an unequal deal in a short term. The US is gambling. Its continuous provocations are an indication of its anxiety and eagerness to see its approach to quickly take effect.

By no means will China gamble. China has made full preparations for all situations. At a time when the tariff war has approached its peak, China is increasingly preparing itself for the worst-case scenario psychologically and tactically. The sooner the US puts into action its threat to impose a 25 percent tariff on all Chinese goods, the earlier the trade war will reach its first turning point. After that, the trade war will enter a stalemate.

The perception that China cannot bear it is a fantasy and misjudgment. If they weren't being seriously provoked, the Chinese people would not favor any trade war. However, once the country is strategically coerced, nothing is unbearable for China in order to safeguard its sovereignty and dignity as well as the long-term development rights of the Chinese people.

China's tai chi philosophy stresses maintaining sobriety and rationality at any moment. It's a philosophy that is against impulsiveness and focuses on endurance. China has introduced measures to expand its opening-up policies while dealing with the US' trade war. That is to say, besides striking back at US' tariff moves, China remains dedicated to creating a more favorable internal and external environment so as to make sure that China can endure the trade war.

The US government trumpeted that it would collect $100 billion in tariff revenue and the money could be used to purchase American agricultural products. It's ridiculous and is obviously fooling the American public. In an era when globalization continues to diminish the role of tariffs, Washington has threatened to bring manufacturing back to the US with tariff revenues and barriers.

China's stance is clear-cut. It is willing to reach a deal but will never make concessions on issues of principle, nor trade its core interests. In contrast, the US' attitude is swaying. Driven by unrealistic anticipation, it has drifted between expressing optimism that exceeds the actual situation and arbitrarily waving the tariff stick. China has clarified its stance and will try to push the situation in a good direction. If the US is to play a roller coaster-style thriller game, it will bear the consequences.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
technically it's possible, just Mr. Xi (to use your example) would need to hire some excellent staff, working 24/7, as in Internet it's not clear who got "smashed", is it? I mean a fan club would show support even while losing (OK it's also unclear what's "losing" in Internet), giving tens of thousands 'Likes', which China could achieve only by establishing a troll factory

kinda byproduct of this post is:
Analyzing Trump’s Tweets
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EDIT
in fact it'd be interesting to see if the staff were able to generate in real-time
visceral
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tweets of presumably high quality
Hire 1 person educated in economics with a sharp tongue and that'd be it. Well... maybe 3 in 8 hour shifts cus Trump is on there 24 hours... While it's not going to be 100% clear in the sense that Trump's not going to roll over and say, "Damn, you killed me with that one," it's going to be obvious to the educated people, and the main purpose isn't to point out to people how ridiculous Trump is (that's already obvious); it's to show Trump that there are way nastier people than him out there who could talk him under the table so it'd be best for him to start acting presidential. He'd have anxiety issues anticipating nasty reply tweets all day and when he first reads each tweet and feels that disrespect and how stupid they made his tweets look, the sensation of jumping veins in his head would take him over. Soon, he'll either start to dread Twitter and declare that he's above that level of stuff (LOL) or he'll have an aneurysm and that'll be it. This is all about negative conditioning like you'd do to a dog that can't mind its manners.

As for the thumbs up, I don't think you need to hire anybody. The democrats would jump in with anyone who hit Trump and all those Europeans would lend their thumbs up. You wouldn't even have to unblock Twitter in China.

On second thought, Xi might not want to do that. Making America's most hated clown-show of a president act presidential and well-mannered so he can deal better with the rest of the world is not in China's favor.
 
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Hire 1 person educated in economics with a sharp tongue and that'd be it. Well... maybe 3 in 8 hour shifts cus Trump is on there 24 hours... While it's not going to be 100% clear in the sense that Trump's not going to roll over and say, "Damn, you killed me with that one," it's going to be obvious to the educated people, and the main purpose isn't to point out to people how ridiculous Trump is (that's already obvious); it's to show Trump that there are way nastier people than him out there who could talk him under the table so it'd be best for him to start acting presidential. He'd have anxiety issues anticipating nasty reply tweets all day and when he first reads each tweet and feels that disrespect and how stupid they made his tweets look, the sensation of jumping veins in his head would take him over. Soon, he'll either start to dread Twitter and declare that he's above that level of stuff (LOL) or he'll have an aneurysm and that'll be it. This is all about negative conditioning like you'd do to a dog that can't mind its manners.

As for the thumbs up, I don't think you need to hire anybody. The democrats would jump in with anyone who hit Trump and all those Europeans would lend their thumbs up. You wouldn't even have to unblock Twitter in China.

On second thought, Xi might not want to do that. Making America's most hated president act presidential and well-mannered so he can deal better with the rest of the world is not in China's favor.
I think it would've made Trump's day if eighty-years-old politruks off the Politburo had been discussing the quality of tweets, LOL! careful about "aneurysm" then
 
now I read this long one (but was worth it)
Beyond the China-US trade war: what next for the world’s two giants?
  • Even with a tariffs ceasefire, Beijing and Washington appear destined for decades of rivalry
Updated: 10:10pm, 12 May, 2019
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There is little cause for optimism in the future relations of the world’s two largest economies: the US and China.

About a year and a half ago, US President Donald Trump labelled China a “strategic competitor” while more recently, Kiron Skinner, the director of policy planning at the US State Department, talked of preparing for “a fight with a really different civilisation”.

The wide differences and deep distrust between the two powers has been highlighted again with the latest abrupt turn in the bilateral trade negotiations. With or without a trade deal, the turbulence in economic ties, widely viewed as the ballast of China-US relations, heralds more choppy waters ahead.

Beijing has shed little light on what exactly China will do to adapt to the changed conditions. A beaming Vice-Premier Liu He said he went to Washington with “sincerity” and despite “pressure” on Friday. But that followed a Thursday commentary in People’s Daily, the Communist Party’s mouthpiece: “We do not want to fight, but we are not afraid to fight and, given no choice, we will fight.”

Analysts’ opinions varied on what cards China will play over the longer term. However, even to the most optimistic, it will be a difficult balancing act for Beijing to maintain an otherwise positive and stable relationship with the United States.

In a sign of strong distrust, a Pentagon report last week said that many major initiatives by Beijing had posed security threats to the US, and not only its military modernisation. The report also found cause for concern in the “Made in China 2025” industrial upgrading programme, China’s growing interest in the Arctic region, even its cultural exchange programmes.

“Be it a deal or not, the US and China are negotiating a divorce,” Pang Zhongying, a Beijing-based international affairs expert, said.

“China has been a beneficiary of globalisation amid a constructively cooperative relation with the US in the eras of Clinton, Bush and Obama.

“Now, China has to adapt to deglobalisation, the theme set by Trump, amid antipathy stemming from the alleged subsidies to state-owned enterprises, technology theft, unfair trade practice, among other things.”

Pang said that the many possible battlefronts on which the US had pressed China included a technology war, featuring the US boycott of China-developed 5G communications networks, and a currency war, with China forced to appreciate the yuan against the US dollar.

In a worst-case scenario, he said, China faced a lost decade.

“China is not prepared to cope with that. The only strategic solution to my knowledge is the Belt and Road Initiative, but that does not sound feasible,” he said.

The initiative, also known as the New Silk Road strategy, is President Xi Jinping’s signature programme intended to connect Asia, Europe, Africa, Latin America and other regions through infrastructure and trade. Since the programme’s launch in 2013, it has attracted 126 partner countries and 29 global organisations.

It is not clear to what extent China’s goals for the initiative have been or will be achieved. But the US and some European countries have criticised Beijing of neocolonialism, developing projects at the expense of the environment and saddling poor countries.

“The future is impossible to predict, but if history is any guide, US-China competition is likely to intensify in coming years,” said Jonathan Hillman, a senior fellow of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Three decades ago, US officials worried about the rise of Japan – a democracy and US ally – and that anxiety did not really decline until Japan’s economy declined, Hillman said.

Many analysts argue the Japan’s economic stagnation was in large part due to the Plaza Accord, a 1985 currency pact among developed nations to manipulate exchange rates by depreciating the US dollar against the yen (as well as the Deutschmark). Pang said the yuan could be the target of a similar agreement.

Hillman agreed that the differences between the United States and China were bigger than those between the US and Japan, “and unlikely to be solved by any ceasefire in the US-China trade war”.

But Tao Wenzhao, a researcher with the Institute of American Studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said things would not be that bad.

“Although there are more conservative opinions emerging in the US, no one is in favour of outright confrontation. After all, I believe there is a consensus that the huge size of the bilateral trade means the China-US relations are too important to collapse,” he said.

That trade came at US$630 billion last year, up 5.7 per cent from a year earlier despite the friction. But China’s trade surplus, an issue Trump has vowed to tackle, rose last year more rapidly at 17 per cent year on year, to US$323 billion.

“It’s true the relations have entered a new phase, with differences, competition and possible frequent frictions, and it will be the theme for the next 20 or 30 years,” Tao said.

“The US is unable to contain China, because China is already powerful. China’s development will definitely continue, and it’s likely we can have a basically stable China-US relations as both countries cherish the economic ties, no matter how they differ in other areas,” he said.

Shi Yinhong, an adviser to China’s State Council and a US affairs professor at Renmin University in Beijing, expected China to face brushfire confrontations across a wide landscape of politics to strategy to ideology in the coming years, as competition overwhelmed cooperation.

Shi said Beijing would focus more on domestic affairs – maintaining domestic stability, deepening reforms, strengthening ideological controls, and continuing with innovations and technology upgrades, even though the Made in China 2025 strategy, designed to help it gain global leadership in core technologies, had been under attack.

At the same time, he said, Beijing was expected to be more restrained in the belt and road programme and issues including the South China Sea and its territorial claims to the self-ruled island of Taiwan – because “it won’t have plenty of money”.

According to official data, China’s economy grew 6.6 per cent last year, the slowest pace since 1990, official data showed. Economist say much of the slowdown in growth was due to the trade war and the trend was likely to continue.

According to Wang Tao, chief China economist at UBS Securities, a full-on trade war with the US would decelerate China’s GDP growth to below 6 per cent if Beijing did not ratchet up stimulus measures significantly. Beijing’s official growth target for this year is 6 to 6.5 per cent.

“I do believe the Chinese government will increase policy stimulus if the trade war escalates, shifting its macro policy stance again to more of an easing bias,” Wang said.

She said more stimulus could include more infrastructure investment, more cuts in the reserve requirement ratio, continued credit easing, and a less hawkish stance on the property sector

In the longer term, China will rigorously seek to become more competitive globally in innovation and technology, according to analysts, and will thus have to reform and open up to attract international cooperation.

Sourabh Gupta, a policy specialist at the Institute for China-America Studies in Washington, said China would not rely only on itself to innovate although Xi has called on scientists and researchers to depend mainly on themselves for breakthroughs.

“China seeks to perpetuate a symbiotic high-technology trade and investment relationship with the US,” he said.

“Crucially, the dynamism of China’s domestic innovation system is based in large part on US-owned core technologies.”

Gupta said Washington’s foreign acquisitions and export control rules did not exclude Chinese innovators from acquiring technology and those rules were expected to remain unchanged. As a result, China was likely to continue to level to trade and investment playing field to attract technology and investment from the US.

Beijing was betting that the more liberal and reciprocal its foreign investment and mergers and acquisitions regime became, the more likely that under pressure from business groups Washington would narrow the definition of “national security” to encourage two-way flows in technology, he said.

On the technology front, intellectual property protection will remain the crux of the conflicts, according to Chad Ohlandt, a senior engineer with the Rand Corporation, an American research group – even though China has banned forced technology transfer and vowed to protect intellectual property better.

“Legal protections are enforced by courts,” he said. “While the US system believes in the ‘rule of law’, the Chinese system espouses the ‘rule by law’, meaning that the Communist Party governs through the execution of the legal system.

“Even if Chinese ministries and industries accept that intellectual property rights and their enforcement are in their own best interests in the long term, accepting US review of their effectiveness essentially interferes with the Communist Party’s governance by law and their ability to select industrial winners and losers.”

...
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the rest of
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The trade negotiations had been so difficult because they were not only about finding a mutually acceptable deal, but also about linking the US and Chinese legal systems through trade agreements with implications that rippled through both systems, he said.

Jude Blanchette, a specialist in Chinese politics at Crumpton Group, a US advisory and business development firm, said: “If we’re lucky, the future of US-China relations will entail a long, complicated, and messy process of managing conflict and competition across a range of crucial domains, while striving to find areas of cooperation that both governments see as positive-sum.

“Unfortunately, there’s also the distinct possibility that the bilateral relationship continues to deteriorate into outright hostility, with diminishing economic, cultural, and diplomatic linkages, with the global order bifurcating into two distinct systems,” he said.

A source of possible hostility remains China’s geopolitical ambitions. Many Western analysts maintain that China will not shift to a restrained mode even under US pressure.

“China’s relative restraint over the past six months is tactical, not strategic,” Blanchette said.

“It views itself as a linchpin of the global order, with an inherent right to occupy superpower status. Irrespective of the current US-China negotiations, China is on a course to dominate East Asia by design, while its domestic exigencies will demand that it reach further afield to ensure resource access,” he said.

Steve Tsang, director of the SOAS China Institute at the University of London, said that moderation would not be the main theme as long as Xi remained in charge.

“Xi does not buy into the wisdom of restraint, which Deng Xiaoping proclaimed. Having hoisted his colours high it will be very difficult for Xi to back off from asserting China, in East Asia and beyond.”

Gupta, of the Institute for China-America Studies, expects US-China military, maritime and geopolitical competition in Asia to worsen, in some instances “worsen gravely”.

Naval clashes between the US and China within the first and second island chains in the Western Pacific were destined to worsen appreciably, he said.

“It is particularly at the intersection point at which a core Chinese territorial or sovereignty-based interest challenges US navigational pre-eminence and freedoms or implicates Washington’s forward-deployed military’s alliance obligations, which is the ripest for conflict,” he said.

“Thankfully though, the disputed land features in the East China Sea and the South China Sea are too tiny to fight over. And thankfully, too, that while Taiwan remains unresolved business for Beijing since the 1950s and also a key psychological marker of Washington’s forward deployed deterrent and ‘values-based’ posture, the US’ formal obligations to defend the island are written in hazy language.

“But that said, misperceptions in the asymmetry of motivation between the two sides to unite, from Beijing’s perspective, or, alternatively, to defend, from Washington’s perspective, the island could touch off a dangerously violent conflict. Taiwan will remain a powder keg for the foreseeable future,” he said.

Tsang said the most important theme would be a contest of ideas, “between the American or democratic way of life” and “the Xi Jinping approach to supporting authoritarianism worldwide”.

“This underpins the strategic competition between the US and China, be it in the military, economic, social or technological aspects,” he said.
by the way I linked that "Pentagon report"
May 4, 2019
now
Pentagon Report Cites Rapidly Modernizing Chinese Navy
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plus
ANNUAL REPORT TO CONGRESS Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China 2019
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Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
Capital on the move. Oracle sacks 900 of its China R&D employees. Fired employees chant:
“Oppose Oracle’s political firing of staff, keep politics away from technology” and “Keep the jobs in China”.

"Although only the first wave of 900 job cuts have been officially announced, many employees said they believed the whole of the China R&D operation would eventually go. "

Source: FT article Oracle China staff protest at wave of 'political firings' Link:
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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Capital on the move. Oracle sacks 900 of its China R&D employees. Fired employees chant:
“Oppose Oracle’s political firing of staff, keep politics away from technology” and “Keep the jobs in China”.

"Although only the first wave of 900 job cuts have been officially announced, many employees said they believed the whole of the China R&D operation would eventually go. "

Source: FT article Oracle China staff protest at wave of 'political firings' Link:
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Oracle also fired US employees ? I don't think it is political or related to US-China trade skirmish.
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From the article "Anecdotal evidence from
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also points towards 50 job losses in Mexico, 50 in New Hampshire, 100 in India, at least 100 in Silicon Valley. DCD has knowledge of a few specific layoffs, confirming the news."
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Capital on the move. Oracle sacks 900 of its China R&D employees. Fired employees chant:
“Oppose Oracle’s political firing of staff, keep politics away from technology” and “Keep the jobs in China”.

"Although only the first wave of 900 job cuts have been officially announced, many employees said they believed the whole of the China R&D operation would eventually go. "

Source: FT article Oracle China staff protest at wave of 'political firings' Link:
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Oracle also sacked US employees. It sacked employees from many centres around the world as part of its restructuring drive. I don't see a US-China trade war angle to it.
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