Trade War with China

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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
now I read
Donald Trump warns China to reach a trade deal now, or face a ‘far worse’ one if I get re-elected
  • US President accuses China of playing for time in the hope he will lose to a ‘very weak’ Democrat in next year’s election
Updated: 4:02pm, 12 May, 2019
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Unbelievable man-child behavior from any professional person. The whole world tries their best to keep professional and not get dragged down to his level when dealing with him but I wonder what would happen if they took the opposite route? What if every time Trump tweeted, they tweeted him back and zinged him so hard his blood pressure exploded? He's lived his whole life acting ugly to people trying to act civil back; what if you showed him someone more gutter material than him? It wouldn't be hard either because the stuff he comes up with, "nasty woman," "rocket man," "sleepy Joe," aren't clever in the least. Hell, Kim Jong Un beat him in English calling him a dotard! LOL
 
Unbelievable man-child behavior from any professional person. The whole world tries their best to keep professional and not get dragged down to his level when dealing with him but I wonder what would happen if they took the opposite route? What if every time Trump tweeted, they tweeted him back and zinged him so hard his blood pressure exploded? He's lived his whole life acting ugly to people trying to act civil back; what if you showed him someone more gutter material than him? It wouldn't be hard either because the stuff he comes up with, "nasty woman," "rocket man," "sleepy Joe," aren't clever in the least. Hell, Kim Jong Un beat him in English calling him a dotard! LOL
I think any Twitter account my comment under tweets for example now I can see a mockery
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dated 10:02 AM · May 12, 2019 under
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....The only problem is that they know I am going to win (best economy & employment numbers in U.S. history, & much more), and the deal will become far worse for them if it has to be negotiated in my second term. Would be wise for them to act now, but love collecting BIG TARIFFS!


I'm going to check later today if they deleted it (LOL I mean the mockery, not the Trump's tweet)
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
The US is much more than a nation. It is the leader of english speaking nations. The US power should not be seen as isolated. It draws strength and support from its close allies too. I don't think China can match that in 50 years unless major allies jump ships. China can match US only if it gets powerful countries to give it the leader badge.

That’s America’s position, but it is not based in reality.

Fact is, most if not all of US allies are countries it extensively helped build up after WW2 or countries that are outright puppets. The former has some fairly powerful countries like UK and France, but they have very seldom been willing to stand up to another superpower. They help against third world countries, but are unwilling to compromise their technological access and economical strength to help Washington against Beijing, or even Moscow.

The latter category is hilariously weak, consisting of barely independent/SAR countries like Panama, Puerto Rico, Micronesia and Nauru.

In contrast, China has Russia, Pakistan and NK, all nuclear powers that are there by their own choice and ready to go very far to defend China and follow through on Chinese resolutions. Then, China has a slew of BRI countries whose relations to China are like UK, France’s relation to US, I.e. they’ll help in words and when it’s convinient, but not put themselves in the firing line over superpower games.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I think any Twitter account my comment under tweets for example now I can see a mockery
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dated 10:02 AM · May 12, 2019 under
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....The only problem is that they know I am going to win (best economy & employment numbers in U.S. history, & much more), and the deal will become far worse for them if it has to be negotiated in my second term. Would be wise for them to act now, but love collecting BIG TARIFFS!


I'm going to check later today if they deleted it (LOL I mean the mockery, not the Trump's tweet)
Yeah I mean not from nobodies. When 5,000 nobodies lay into him after a tweet, he can only ignore it, but what if other world leaders like Xi got on Twitter and smashed him in public for everyone to laugh at? He can't back down; he'll have to say something back, but his mind doesn't come up with clever retorts so he'll get smashed back harder and harder and eventually he'll learn to act civilly if he wants to be treated civilly... that or he'll die from a rage-induced stroke...
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
...
In the past China dominate east asia without stationing a single soldier in the her vassal state or get involve in their domestic politic. They do defend their vassal state on occasion eg Imjin war against JapanBut in general China does not impose her will on other. Instead she lead by example and thru the success of her culture, commerce and wealth attract other nation to follow her path
This is how we do it if you want to follow it is ok if you don't it is ok too
...
All nice, except that it's not based on actual historical evidence. No great power became great by minding their own business and never coveting their neighbors land. China would not be as big today if it was not for centuries(actually millennia) of successful conquests. The latest to be thanked to Qing, the very Confucianist who were denounced by CCP. Nor would the US, nor would Russia, etc. Having said that, I think that attempts to predict the foreign policy of a modern industrial nation today based on how it's pre-industrialized precursor behaved several centuries ago are flawed and useless.

This is a good read:
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Yeah I mean not from nobodies. When 5,000 nobodies lay into him after a tweet, he can only ignore it, but what if other world leaders like Xi got on Twitter and smashed him in public for everyone to laugh at? ...
technically it's possible, just Mr. Xi (to use your example) would need to hire some excellent staff, working 24/7, as in Internet it's not clear who got "smashed", is it? I mean a fan club would show support even while losing (OK it's also unclear what's "losing" in Internet), giving tens of thousands 'Likes', which China could achieve only by establishing a troll factory

kinda byproduct of this post is:
Analyzing Trump’s Tweets
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EDIT
in fact it'd be interesting to see if the staff were able to generate in real-time
visceral
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tweets of presumably high quality
 
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xiabonan

Junior Member
It doesn't seem to me that China is the party that desperately wants and needs a deal, given Trump's recent tweets and renewed threats.

"I give you one-month to complete a deal I like or else I'll punish you even further" doesn't seem like he's winning it to me.

Boasting how much tariff he's collected and that "China will face a tougher deal if he's re-elected" is basically like saying to his supporters "please vote for me if I don't get a deal this term and you'll still have to suffer more, so just bear with it and vote for me"

When election comes the Democrats are bound to make use of these points and tell everybody how tariffs are actually a tax on American consumers. Not sure how that will play out for Trump.

As for China, the only thing they need to do it just to wait. Wait for the best timing to complete a deal, wait for Trump's weakest moments to strike.
 
now I read
Sino-US trade talks need to move on with pragmatism
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/5/12 7:00:50
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The US and China have just concluded the 11th round of trade talks in Washington. At noon Friday (Beijing time), the US increased additional tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese imports from 10 percent to 25 percent, casting a huge shadow on the latest round of Sino-US trade talks. However, both sides agreed that the talks in Washington were constructive and continuable. Reassuringly, both sides have shown a willingness to move on with consultations and agreed to meet again in Beijing in the future.

During a media interview on Saturday, Chinese Vice-Premier Liu He, who led the Chinese delegation in the 11th round of high-level economic and trade consultations with the US, affirmed progress made in the Sino-US consultations. Liu also candidly shared the truth about the differences between the two sides on China's core concerns. They include whether all additional tariffs must be totally revoked if the two sides are to reach a deal, whether the amount of purchases should be realistic, and whether the wording of the agreement must be balanced and acceptable to the Chinese public without undermining the sovereignty and dignity of China.

China has made it clear that it will never make concessions on major issues of principle. China also announced that it will have to take necessary countermeasures against increased additional tariffs by the US. For the US side, using tariffs as a "big stick" has been an idiomatic action since the outbreak of the trade war last year.

It is an unprecedented situation in the history of international trade. On the one hand, China and the US have made new progress in trade talks; but on the other, trade tensions have escalated due to recent tariff hikes imposed by the US. China and the US are now adopting the mode of "fighting and talking".

The reason for this situation is that the US has made a fundamental misjudgment, that is, believing China is unilaterally benefitting from China-US economic and trade relations. They believe that as a trade war will lead to a one-sided loss by China or disproportionate losses between China and the US, they would easily force China to fully concede. The US has misunderstood the interests of both sides, and seriously underestimated China's endurance.

The misconception the US has should be corrected with China's consistent insistence on protecting its core interests. We believe in the basic law of economics and understand the determination and strong will of Chinese society to defend our legitimate rights and interests. We also firmly believe that because of the political system and social structure, China is in a much stronger position than other countries to weather the storm of a trade war.

The US side blamed China for putting up obstacles for the trade talks and said that China went back on its word. What the Chinese Vice Premier said has allowed the truth to come out. The truth is, Washington tried to bring up terms that either harmed the sovereignty and dignity of China, or that were seriously unequal and unrealistic. Those requests have made the negotiations more difficult. The US is spreading confusing messages by guiding Western media coverage, in which it is trying to shirk responsibilities for escalating trade tensions.

We believe that the decision made by the US to raise tariffs is overly impulsive, but the US knows that both the American and global public were hopeful about the prospects of China and the US reaching a trade deal. The US previously had released numerous optimistic messages to boost confidence of US investors before suddenly making a U-turn. Knowing it is hard to explain to the public, the US is trying to redirect the strong public dissatisfaction.

China is not interested in discussing which side is to blame for the sudden U-turn. Instead, China is looking forward. Upon the conclusion of the 11th round of trade talks, both China and the US told media that the meeting was "constructive." This shows that the current standing of both sides is different from what the concerned public regarded as trade talks breaking down. The difficulty in comprehensively defining the current situation is due to the complexity and uniqueness of the China-US relationship.

Washington has made frequent announcements since early Friday morning local time, but it is easy to tell that the announcements were made mainly to the American public for the purpose of shedding responsibilities and comforting the US stock market. If both sides stay in touch, there is still hope for expanding consensus in the future.

Most of the previous rounds were "half-truce talks" before the current shift to the mode of "fighting and talking." However, the mode shift will not change the basic premise of the trade consultations. In face of such a big country like China, the US should not have an unrealistic illusion that once the trade war intensifies, it will have more bargaining chips at the negotiation table. China's confidence and core concerns will by no means be weakened by tariff hikes. This is commonsense in international relations that the US needs to take into account.

China has shown its sincerity and willingness to resolve trade issues with the US through negotiations, and to establish a long-term stable economic and trade relationship that upholds the principles of mutual respect, mutual benefits, and win-win cooperation. China fully understands the US hopes to promote bilateral trade balances and is willing to take necessary measures to improve those balances between the two countries. However, the US also needs to embrace the idea that China's core concerns must be respected.

China and the US are the world's top two economies. Healthy and stable economic relations between the two will not only benefit both but will also lay a solid foundation for global economic stability. It is a compelling obligation for China and the US to meet each other halfway to resolve their remaining disagreements.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
All nice, except that it's not based on actual historical evidence. No great power became great by minding their own business and never coveting their neighbors land. China would not be as big today if it was not for centuries(actually millennia) of successful conquests. The latest to be thanked to Qing, the very Confucianist who were denounced by CCP. Nor would the US, nor would Russia, etc. Having said that, I think that attempts to predict the foreign policy of a modern industrial nation today based on how it's pre-industrialized precursor behaved several centuries ago are flawed and useless.

This is a good read:
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I read your link It is nothing but mish mash of half truth and innuendo couple with ignorance
China got so big because combination of chasing the invaders on the north side of the border and slow infiltration to the south
Take example of Xinjiang and the Tarim basin. during the Han dynasty the Xiong nu often raid and invaded China To secure the border the Wu emperror of Han dynasty launch an expedition to the north west and Chased the Xiong nu all the way to the west and that is how China got hols of the west They uyghur and the kazakh are recent immigrant Their original homeland is in inner mongolia . After the destruction of their Kingdom by the Dzunghar they were given land in Xinjiang to live in the 8th century. So Xinjiang has always been in Chinese possession since 1st Century BC. But due to the distance , logistic and flow and ebb of Chinese dynasty they cannot maintained constant control over the area . Only when China is strong she will reestablish control and due to war with Dzungar who was the original inhabitant of Xinjiang the Qing once and for all incorporate it as Chinese territory. So to say that China invade and conquer Xinjiang is not correct.

Yes they are not Han but ethnicity and nationality are 2 different thing and people often confused it resulting in tragedy. The present harsh crackdown on the Uyghur is because they started first by rioting and killing hundreds of Han people But western press never mention it They just paint China as Nazis bent on genocide. China didn't treat the Hui or the Tajik harshly.

In the south China gain the territory over hundred of years thru immigration and inter marry with the local inhabitant who is more than willing to accept Chinese culture and civilization Thru the many war and natural disaster million of Chinese migrated to the south Most of them are soldier from the defeated faction or refugee from natural disaster There they intermingle and intermarry with the Kadai, Yue, She and other Austornesian people.

So over hundred of years they become Han Chinese and think themselves as Han Chinese

The current Chinese name "Xinjiang", which literally means "New Frontier" or "New Borderland", was given during the
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. According to Chinese statesman
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's report to the Emperor of Qing, Xinjiang means an "old land newly returned" (故土新歸), or the new old land. (Note that "returned" [gui 歸] here is an ideological term, which does not indicate a "return", but what ought to be, from the Chinese empire's point of view).
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The Han then defeated the Xiongnu in the
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and various Indo-European kingdoms such as the
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in the
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. The Han vassalized the regions west of Xinjiang in Central Asia, and set up the
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.
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The
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and the
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around
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The
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in the 3rd century
As a result of these battles, the Chinese controlled all the land from
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and
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to
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and modern
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. In 60 BC Han China established the
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(西域都護府) at Wulei (烏壘, near modern
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) to oversee the entire region as far west as the
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, which would remain under the influence and
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of the Han dynasty with some interruptions. For instance, it fell out of their control during the civil war against
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(r. AD 9–23). It was brought back under Han control in AD 91 due to the efforts of the general
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.

Meanwhile, after the Uyghur Khaganate in Mongolia had been smashed by the Kirghiz in 840, branches of the
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established themselves in
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(Karakhoja) and
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, near the modern cities of Turfan and Urumchi. This Uyghur state remained in eastern Xinjiang until the 13th century, though it was subject to foreign overlords during that time. The Kara-Khanids converted to Islam. The Uyghur state in eastern Xinjiang remained
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, but later converted to
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.


The
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Qing dynasty of China gained control over eastern Xinjiang as a result of a
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that began in the 17th century. In 1755, with the help of the Oirat noble
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, the Qing attacked
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and captured the Dzungar khan. After Amursana's request to be declared Dzungar khan went unanswered, he led a revolt against the Qing. Over the next two years, Qing armies destroyed the remnants of the Dzungar Khanate and many Han Chinese and (
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) moved into the pacified areas.
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Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Tariffs is essentially a tax paid by US consumers to subsidize un-competitive industries. (e.g. Trump gave farmers $10 billion subsidy relief, basically subsidization)

Ironically, no nation on earth is better at subsidizing un-competitive industries than China, which has decades of experience with centrally-planned economy.

So Trump is trying to out-compete China at it's own game. China is more resilient and better at subsidizing it's industries than US can subsidize it's farmers.
 
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