Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Via Adam Wang, Huawei keep coming up with newer and newer chips. It is just matter of time before it eclipse Qualcomm

The first Chinese domestic 5G chip: Huawei Kirin 990 has entered the test phase
2019-03-13 08:46:49
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According to the industry chain news, Huawei is now working with TSMC to conduct the testing phase of Kirin 990. It is reported that Kirin 990 uses TSMC's second-generation 7nm process. Compared with the first generation, the second generation added a V-lithography machine, which can increase the transistor density by 20%, reduce power consumption by 10%, and improve overall performance by about 10%. In addition, Kirin 990 will integrate the Baron 5000 baseband and support 5G Internet access. By then, Kirin 990 is likely to become the strongest processor in China.

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Faced with the rapid development of Kirin chip, it is difficult for Snapdragon chip to continue to develop at the current development speed. If Snapdragon 855 does not have much improvement in performance, then the loss of the original Snapdragon chip in the leading position. However, the release of Kirin 990 may not be so early. Huawei's need to reduce the generation difference with Qualcomm chips remains the main problem facing Huawei chips. But I believe that the development of Kirin will definitely exceed the dragon in the future!

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CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
What is the point of being the strongest processor in China when you can't sell Kirin to other Chinese phone makers?

May I ask what field you are in? It makes perfect sense to me that a politically sensitive and strategically critical company (in a politically sensitive and strategically critical industry) MUST move towards vertically integrating its supply chain. The liabilities of selling your own intermediate inputs to your direct competitors is too great to justify expanding your revenue streams by a few billions (or even few tens of billions) of USD per year. Intel and Qualcomm sell their processors because they don't actually compete with their customers. They purely sell intermediate inputs while their customers purely sell finished products.

Take a step back and look at the big picture beyond the revenue stream. This is about supply chain independence and global dominance. It's about being able to not just survive, but maybe even thrive during a hypothetical period of complete and total cold war between China and the U.S.
 
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CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Since I am asking about your field, I should give the courtesy of explaining mine. I'm in the tech industry (energy storage) and we would never sell our intermediate inputs to a competitor. That's a form of business suicide. Likewise, none of our vendors compete with us.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Samsung does that. It is a conglomerate. The semiconductor fab portion has to compete in the open market.
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Samsung does that. It is a conglomerate. The semiconductor fab portion has to compete in the open market.

Samsung is a South Korean company. Meaning it is not about to be subjected to sanctions and attacks by America. You absolutely cannot compare its activities and strategies to that which a Chinese company has to take.
 
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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Samsung to a large degree was ignored because South Korea is a small country. So the US considers it to be less of a nuisance than say Japan or China.

Still, the strategy of making the company internally competitive is nothing new. Other companies do it not just Samsung.

GE for example used to be known for doing exactly that.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Samsung does that. It is a conglomerate. The semiconductor fab portion has to compete in the open market.
You mean Samsung supply its AMOLED to other phone vendors? Some thoughts.
  1. Samsung is absolutely dominant in AMOLED up till now.
  2. Samsung prioritize supply to its own phones before others.
  3. Samsung only provide older and lesser AMOLED panels to others.
  4. Samsung makes all size and design (cut-out arrangements) for its own phone. But not doing that for others.
These essentially keep others behind and controlled by Samsung. However Samsung choose not to sell its CPU/GPU, I don't know why but Huawei seems to understand why.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
You mean Samsung supply its AMOLED to other phone vendors? Some thoughts.
  1. Samsung is absolutely dominant in AMOLED up till now.
  2. Samsung prioritize supply to its own phones before others.
  3. Samsung only provide older and lesser AMOLED panels to others.
  4. Samsung makes all size and design (cut-out arrangements) for its own phone. But not doing that for others.
These essentially keep others behind and controlled by Samsung. However Samsung choose not to sell its CPU/GPU, I don't know why but Huawei seems to understand why.

Probably because of patents. Samsung phones for the American market are using Qualcomm cpu
 
now
NATO weighing Huawei spying risks to member countries
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NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has been drawn into the ongoing row over Huawei, the world’s largest producer of telecommunications network equipment that has been accused of posing a spying risk.

“Some NATO allies have expressed their concerns over Huawei and their role in providing 5G infrastructure. And, of course, NATO takes these concerns very seriously,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference in Brussels on Thursday.

Some officials in U.S. President Donald Trump’s administration have been pushing for him to sign an order that could result in U.S. companies being barred from buying Huawei technology.

Earlier this week, there were reports that U.S. European Command chief Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti had warned that NATO forces would stop communicating with German colleagues if Berlin were to team up with Huawei for its 5G telecom infrastructure.

The Wall Street Journal said the Trump administration had sent to Berlin a warning that it would scale back data-sharing with German security agencies if China’s Huawei were to get a role in Germany’s next-generation mobile infrastructure.

Shenzhen-based Huawei competes with Apple and Samsung as a smartphone maker and is the global leader in next-generation high-speed 5G mobile network technology.

But some governments have banned Huawei from supplying parts to their networks due to security fears.

The company has repeatedly denied that it works with the Chinese government and that its products are designed to facilitate spying.

But the United States is lobbying European and other allies to shun the company as their phone carriers invest billions in upgrading to next-generation mobile networks.

At a news conference to unveil his annual report, Stoltenberg was asked if there was a chance that NATO would recommend to allies to ban Chinese companies from 5G procurement. He was also asked if NATO had any evidence of state-sponsored cyberattacks from China.

“We are now consulting closely on this issue, including on the security aspects of investments in 5G networks. I know that this is something which is addressed in many NATO capitals, and it is an issue which is partly a trade and an economic issue, but also has potential security implications," he told reporters.

“So we will now consult. We will assess the issue and find out how NATO as an alliance can, in the best possible way, address the challenges related to investments in 5G infrastructure.

“This is a very important issue and therefore I will not speculate so much about the potential outcomes of the assessments and discussions which are now going on in different NATO countries.

“Regardless of this, NATO has significantly stepped up our efforts when it comes to cyber defense and cybersecurity.”

By conducting large-scale exercises, increasing awareness and sharing best practices NATO had sought to “strengthen the resilience of infrastructure and cyber networks for all allies, including our own networks,” he said.

The secretary general’s annual report, published on Thursday, shows that defense spending among European allies and Canada increased by almost 4 percent from 2017 to 2018, and that in the period from 2016 to 2018, they have contributed an additional cumulative spending of more than $41 billion.

“We expect that figure to rise to $100 billion by the end of next year,” Stoltenberg said.

Stoltenberg said that in 2018, seven allies had already reached the benchmark of spending 2 percent of their gross domestic product on defense, up from three in 2014. A majority of allies is also spending more than 20 percent of their defense expenditure on major equipment, and, according to 2018 national plans, 24 allies will meet that target by 2024.

The report also shows that allies continue to make “valuable contributions” to NATO’s operations, missions and other activities, said Stoltenberg, who indicated that there are “more than 20,000 troops serving from Afghanistan and Iraq to Kosovo, the Baltic countries and Poland.”
 
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