2019 India-Pakistani border clash

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Even with these issues. Though compared to the 60 year old Mig21 it's a virtual quantum leap.
A fully integrated modern radar vs a bolted in generations old model on the Bison.
It may not "Dance" like a flanker but then neither can a Mig21 it's "good enough" . Factor in additional work load here.
JF17 fly by wire Mig21 manual controls.
JF17 modern MFD displays. Mig21 maybe a added MFD but mostly "steam punk" gauges.
Then add in range of view.
Mig21 was evaluated by the USAF, they felt it matched F5 except F5 was better. The Russians evaluated F5 vs Mig21 they came to the same conclusion.
It wasn't the fire power which is a down grade. It was when the Russian pilot climbed into F5 strapped in and closed the canopy. Suddenly he looked around and saw the world.
When the American pilot climbed in Mig21 strapped in and closed the canopy... claustrophobia.
You look at JF17 The Pakistanis followed F16, huge range of view pilot sits back he sees everything.
The Indians are said to have installed a Helmet mounted cuing system but that system works a million times better if you can track the target and don't loose it in the frame of the canopy.
You look at the air superiority fighters that emerged after Mig21 The start of the 4th gen they all at first had two seats.
This was because they had to off load the tasks of the weapons and detection to someone else. Flying the plane was to complicated enough as was. The second iterations of the 4th gens is when the rear seater is gone the interiors are simplified more and more systems are digitized or plugged into early MFD. Then F16 hits the sky with Fly by wire, Hands On Throttle-And-Stick and the plane flies it's self. Everything simplified.
JF17 sits at the edge of 5th gen avionics. His work load for a kill is easier. He can spend more time hunting targets than worried about the machine.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The only reason I can think of for US cooperation in this whole f26 shot down lie, is just to preserve the image of their F16 for possibly indian sale. Imagine the success of their f21 pitch if a mig21 can shoot down an F16.
Our side of blog posting there is no US report that places much faith in the F16 claim at this time.
 

Zahid

Junior Member
No, Indian Media did.
Otherwise the IAF has said they did shoot down a F16 however has not produced evidence there in.
They have produced the head of an AMRAAM C that is likely from a FMS
I have seen claim that AIM 120C is traceable to Taiwan, based on the serial number.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Dude just give it a rest there is no official statement by either IAF or indian govt of nonsense you are blabbering about... twitterits claims doesn't matter at least read indian govt or IAF official briefing before spewing your nonsense here.

Bro try harder next time. You're almost there. Give the trolling a rest. There's proven fake stories coming from India. There's proven wreckage and captured pilot from Pakistan. That's all we know and you agree with the above. You agree that Pakistan has downed a Mig-21 and has your pilot. You agree that you have so far no concrete evidence of downed F-16 yet you still go around talking about it like it's gospel and anyone who doesn't bend to your will is a cheerleader. What a clown you've been. People reading this are laughing at you for the points above.

Let me give you a piece of advice before you feel like polluting this thread with more of your pro-India nonsense. Shut up until solid evidence comes out of downed F-16. To make this easier for you I will list a few things that would constitute as convincing evidence.

1. Wreckage of F-16 with PAF symbol.

2. Any statements from Pakistan or a nation not called India to come out with some confirmation. You can't call this point yourself and not have the evidence to back this up so your word is as good as excrement.

3. HUD footage or video footage clearly showing an F-16 being shot down.

4. Captured pilot issuing a statement.

If you can do that and share something like the above without gloating or chest-thumping like a classic chauvinist, I will bet that everyone here with believe that IAF did in fact shoot down a PAF F-16. Until then, I would advise you to stop blabbering about what IAF or Indian media is saying. Why are you this thick? Why can't you understand that anything coming from India cannot be reliable until it is corroborated by others. If you believe that Indian statements are true but they are unprovable because the wreck is in Pakistan and the incident has been hidden well by Pakistan and the US, then you should just go about living your life believing such things without feeling the need to keep insulting others who are only acting reasonably in being skeptical of a one sided claim with zero evidence to date.

BTW I am still waiting for you to supply the so-called photo/s of F-16 wreckage! Come on... deliver them or stop spewing your nonsense.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Our side of blog posting there is no US report that places much faith in the F16 claim at this time.

Ignoring the crap that the new troll has spewed here. The US does indeed have some interest in keeping any shoot down of F-16 well hidden. They will be less inclined to market the F-21 to India if this is true because the Indian officials will know for sure if the claim is true or not.

No tracing of the AMRAAM to Taiwan yet. I think that's just a rumour propagated by Pakistani sources. Still an AMRAAM does not mean an F-16 is shot down. It only proves that Pakistan lied about not using F-16s for whatever reason. It could be because they lost one to IAF or to hide the use from US authorities.

Also the wreckage Indians keep saying is F-16 is PROVEN to be Mig-21... look at the panels and the engine for Fs sake. It is NOT a PW 100 series or any other PW/GE engine nacelle/ petals/ or covering. There ARE identifiable parts that belong on a Mig-21. The Indian media just picked the photos where the IAF symbol isn't in it to pretend it's F-16 to show their ignorant masses who desperately need some comforting at the moment.

The only piece of evidence the Indians are talking about is the alleged serial number THAT DOESNT EVEN FREAKING MATCH the database they are using. Now they're saying the 7 magically rubbed off on the component despite the fact the others are so visible and component is clearly undamaged... not even a slight scratch. Also they are happy to ignore the fact that this is NOT where an F-16's serial number is hand written in marker pen. These guys are understandably frustrating to everyone who are level headed and rational.

Both groups are so unbelievably petty to make such a fuss about one mig-21 being shot down (only confirmed thing). If they feel they should disclose more details if there are any more, they should stop pretending to be holding onto those details "to save their enemies some embarrassment". The reason Pakistan and India have not issued any more statements beyond the same old changing stories, is because there's not much more than that. Likely, no MKI was really shot down and no F-16 was really shot down.

@berserk

I'm not invested in Pakistan or care whether PAF lost an F-16. In fact I actually hope a Mig-21 can shoot down an F-16 and I hope a Su-30 can do it much easier. PLAAF does not have F-16 and is geared to fight against such systems. It would be good for China and PLAAF to know J-7s and Flankers can do well enough against F-16s. It would be pretty worrying for China to find out an F-16 or JF-17 can shoot down a modernised Su-30.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Prove him wrong. He is talking verifiable facts. Unverify them, if you can.

Could you guys share the evidence for tracing the AMRAAM to Taiwan? I heard about it all over the internet but have yet to really get through all the pages to the actual evidence.

If it is indeed another fake attempt like the claim of Mig-21 wreck as F-16, I think these Indian guys are grasping at straws and 100% do not have half a hope of touching an F-16. If I were in India's position and actually REALLY shot down an F-16, I would not be acting like a stupid propagandist and making any debunkable lies up. I will find a way to communicate the situation to the guys in Pakistan and other nations and force an admission somehow or get my satellite footage of the event. Actually that's assuming Indian military has those observation capabilities. The fact they ARE lying at least about the wreckage and have only talked but failed to provide provable facts and evidence, shows me they are more likely lying about the whole thing. Honestly won't be surprising given what has happened in the past and how these guys act. All talk... only talk. Zero results. Results are weaker than the most optimistic expectations :D:D:D

If PAF actually used an JF-17 or F-16 to shoot down an MKI, I would be a bit worried for PLAAF. But I'm hoping those rumours are just Pakistanis high on schadenfreude.
 
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