Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

Status
Not open for further replies.

hkbc

Junior Member
Spot on here Dude, but nobody's going to honor your honest assessments. Honestly there are a great many changes everywhere, but freedom is still worth fighting for. Thank you for your integrity, its nice to see someone try to balance all the narratives and come up with the truth...

I don't get this 'freedom' thing you keep talking about, and how it applies?

If its individual freedom then isn't it the choice for someone to be able to buy the handset they want, whether its bugged or not, surely its their decision not the government's dictate on what's banned and what's not?

If its business freedoms isn't it the choice of a company to pick the right technology at the right price and not the government's?

Or is it just the government's freedom to do as it pleases, sign an executive order and be done? (but I think they call that dictatorship in other parts of the world!)

In 'oppressed' China the people appear to have freedom of choice on what handset they can buy, the government didn't go on the airwaves and tell people Samsung S9s and iPhones are insecure, made by a hostile foreign power, don't buy them! They don't seem to have told their telecos buy Nokia or Ericsson (would have picked an American 5G supplier but there aren't any!) and you won't get your licences renewed!

How does this 'fighting for freedom' thing work? What are we fighting for exactly? and what freedoms?
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
I don't get this 'freedom' thing you keep talking about, and how it applies?

If its individual freedom then isn't it the choice for someone to be able to buy the handset they want, whether its bugged or not, surely its their decision not the government's dictate on what's banned and what's not?

If its business freedoms isn't it the choice of a company to pick the right technology at the right price and not the government's?

Or is it just the government's freedom to do as it pleases, sign an executive order and be done? (but I think they call that dictatorship in other parts of the world!)

In 'oppressed' China the people appear to have freedom of choice on what handset they can buy, the government didn't go on the airwaves and tell people Samsung S9s and iPhones are insecure, made by a hostile foreign power, don't buy them! They don't seem to have told their telecos buy Nokia or Ericsson (would have picked an American 5G supplier but there aren't any!) and you won't get your licences renewed!

How does this 'fighting for freedom' thing work? What are we fighting for exactly? and what freedoms?

Come on, man; you're asking a 4th grader calculus questions. "Freedom" as it's used here by Brat is the discussion forum version of flipping the chess board when you lose your queen.;)
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Come on, man; you're asking a 4th grader calculus questions. "Freedom" as it's used here by Brat is the discussion forum version of flipping the chess board when you lose your queen.;)

You have chosen to live here in the US in order to enjoy the "freedoms" this great Nation offers, he was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of you living here and enjoying those same freedoms, while continuously and constantly criticizing this great country which continues to offer you so much opportunity...

If it were half as bad as you continue to "babble on" about, you would have left a long time ago.......

which just makes my point, the United States offers you the personal and economic freedom that cannot and will never be found anywhere else!

but you've got to resort to personal attacks and name calling like a toddler, because you disagree, with me agreeing with him?
 
Come on, man; you're asking a 4th grader calculus questions. "Freedom" as it's used here by Brat is the discussion forum version of flipping the chess board when you lose your queen.;)
Equation it's NOT a straw man when AFB refers to what you put as quote unquote freedom

in the US there's a freedom in what people read or watch or search in Internet, and in continental China there isn't a freedom in what people read or watch or search in Internet

(I like both of you, that's why I'm making this post, not because of bickering)
 
now I read
15:28, 24-Feb-2019
How Trump changes his tone on Huawei?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

On Friday, U.S. President Donald Trump wrote in a tweet that he wanted 5G and 6G technology in the United States. He later said that he wanted the U.S. to "win through competition, not by blocking out currently more advanced technologies."

When a Chinese reporter asked if this list included Huawei, the answer was surprisingly open. Trump said that means all companies.

This is a marked contrast from Trump's previous tone on the company. In December, he considered signing an executive order banning Huawei from selling equipment in the U.S., citing national security as a reason to bar U.S. companies from using telecommunications equipment made by Huawei.

However, he has not signed that order yet.

When meeting with Chinese Vice Premier Liu He, Trump said he is thinking of holding off on signing the order.

In this case, does this mean that the Trump administration has changed its tone on the Chinese telecoms company?

Perhaps not. Speaking to Fox Business on Thursday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said that countries using Huawei equipment will no longer be provided top-secret intelligence by the U.S., as they cannot keep confidential information hush-hush.

However, Trump's words did send out positive signals, and if interpreted in light of the ongoing talks in Washington, Trump is perhaps eyeing strategic gains by softening his position. Yet, is that to say that the hawkish China policy will change and Beijing should let its guard down?

Arguably negative. As some analysts have noted, if the Cabinet keeps pursuing its antagonistic approach, the combative policy against China is most likely to stay put. After all, policy is not made solely by Trump himself but heavily shaped by his hawkish staff members. So, how much can Trump do to help Huawei if he really thinks otherwise?

This lies in how we understand the president's power. Those unfamiliar with U.S. politics would assume that everything from disaster relief to trade negotiations, falls within the purview of the president, and everyone within the White House. Nevertheless, as the New York Times unveiled, there really is resistance against Trump within the Cabinet, and divergence is not uncommon.

Under the American Constitution, it is largely a misconception that the president can unleash "shock and awe" on his own initiatives. In a mechanism envisioned by the framers of the Constitution, executive powers should be checked if not dwarfed by the legislative branch, which makes laws, while the president is empowered only to execute them.

For better or for worse, the essence of a republic requires that deliberate democracy be put higher on the political agenda, which enables careful debate for both popular will and elite limits on what will to be reflected. Therefore, presidential power grabs have often been followed by congressional backlash, and in theory, the president can only do so much.

That is to say, decades have witnessed a secret transformation of the country's executive powers. This is on one hand, prompted by the tremendous complexity of the modern society, and on the other hand, by the growing concern over national security and economy.

In the 20th century for instance, the Great Depression propelled the presidency to a level of dominance, and the 9/11 attacks further extended presidential power to new heights.

In an era of Trump, the expansion of presidential power has been even more unparalleled, and this is nowhere better seen than in a cumulative number of executive orders Trump has signed, which increased month by month since 2017 and reached 95 by February 2019.

Most astonishingly, Trump's first stab at the so-called travel ban and his recent invocation of presidential emergency powers to get his wall built all adds up to an impression that Trump has gone so far by taking advantage of the Constitution and strengthening his own authority.

In this light, with such unleashed presidential prerogatives in hand, Trump can indeed ease the current Huawei plight. To the very least, he may pause the executive order banning Huawei from selling equipment in the U.S.

But whether he will wield that power depends on how well the extended trade talk goes. For the moment, as Secretary of Commerce Ross said, it's a little early for champagne.
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
have you been to China? If you only read how China is from medias ... you would get totally different views of China than the reality there

I've been to ROC for a couple of weeks. Great people, very hard working. Come to think of it, it's about time I plan a vacation to the mainland.

Although, to get a proper perspective one would need to stay there for work and get immersed in the culture. In the meantime, I occasionally follow YouTube channels of westerners living in PRC.
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
To be an "ant" is to work hard for relatively little pay. I have lived in Manhattan, NY for many years and that is a city that will make people feel like ants; I don't feel a revolt starting there soon, do you? To be an ant is to live the words of President Kennedy, "Ask not what your nation can do for you; ask what you can do for your nation." Only when you judge life satisfaction by materialistic wealth will you come to the conclusion that those who live like ants will revolt. In truth, nation of people to live like ants will dominate the world; the pity is that Chinese people cannot be more like ants.

Hmm, if I got you right, that sounds a lot like modern Japan. The ants know their place, but in return for their obedience the elites take good care of them. While the social contract lasts, the society prospers.

If you are truly here to learn, you should listen and not be combative. What you are doing here to taking what Chinese people here tell you and trying to twist it to match what your media told you under the false assumption that your media is accurate and would never be negatively biased against China.

Discussions help in seeing the problem from different perspectives. My ambition is not to win arguments, but to further my understanding. When people pointed out that I was wrong in my understanding of current PRC economy I took that seriously and realized that indeed some of my information was outdated.
 
Thursday at 9:23 AM
now I read
Samsung announces folding phone with 5G capabilities at nearly $2,000
Updated 12:53, 21-Feb-2019
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Today at 8:23 AM
now I read
14:59, 24-Feb-2019
Huawei's foldable phone: What we know so far
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
happened to notice
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and watched live for coupla minutes:

Hu1.jpg


Hu2.jpg


Hu3.jpg


Hu4.jpg
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
You keep assuming I'm from the US. For the record, I live in western Europe. I can say with confidence that no Chinese, nor any other Asian is demonized here. The wages here are not as high as in the US for the top-earners. But then the minimal wages are the highest in the world. Even people with menial jobs enjoy one month of payed vacation a year. Many work part-time so that they can enjoy their life better and are willing to make do with less money at the end of the month. Materialism is definitely not the creed we live by. Instead, I would describe it as HOT (happiness, opportunity, time).

But how did we get here? Certainly not by being ants. All these privileges were hard-won and long in the making. We are not afraid to criticize (and sue if necessary) our governments for misconduct on their part. This culture traces its roots all the way back to the Age of Enlightenment, and in some areas even earlier like the 17th century England and the Low Countries. Now that's what I would call the pillar of modern western societies.

Being human, the same criteria we judge ourselves by, we also use to judge others outside. If that hurts their feelings, too bad.
  1. I have been living in western Europe for decades, so I think I am qualified to share something.
  2. I don't think you are qualified to say "no Chinese... is demonized" in western Europe because you are not Chinese. It is not solely up to you to decide what is and is not "demonizing". Example, many Muslims in WE feel offended by some Europeans' exercising "freedom of speech". Of course in your view, "freedom of speech" can not be "demonizing", but you won't be able to convince those Muslims to not to feel offended, will you?
  3. Your last point is very Euro-centric assuming other human groups have to accept your "same criteria". The fact is there are European humans and Asian humans who have walked different paths 30000 years ago. Just because we all came from Africa 50000 years ago does not justify one (you) to put your own criteria over others. A simple example, in many European countries, drug consumption is personal matter, in most Asian countries it is a severe crime. There are numerous other differences that you have to learn by living outside of Europe.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
You have chosen to live here in the US in order to enjoy the "freedoms" this great Nation offers, he was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of you living here and enjoying those same freedoms, while continuously and constantly criticizing this great country which continues to offer you so much opportunity...

If it were half as bad as you continue to "babble on" about, you would have left a long time ago.......

which just makes my point, the United States offers you the personal and economic freedom that cannot and will never be found anywhere else!

but you've got to resort to personal attacks and name calling like a toddler, because you disagree, with me agreeing with him?


It's called exercising basic human rights. If one thinks they gave human rights to expect to be respected, then he or she is a human rights abuser. If one doesn't like it then he or she is against the very human rights they supposedly believe. Intimidation in order to prevent one speaking their mind is against freedom of speech. If one takes this route where one can't defend their own arguments, it means one doesn't even know what they're talking about. They're just defending their side which is based on anything but freedom. The only toddler mentality is those that get upset because they're not getting their way where they have to resort to expecting some sort of loyalty for giving freedom that's being denied at the same time. And somehow some sort of loyalty is being expected? One doesn't give rights. They can only be taken away.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top